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On a regular shabbas the teffilah of retzei vhachlitzainu in shmoneh esri has three variations:

  1. In maariv it is בה .

  2. In shachris and musaf it is בו.

  3. In mincha it is בם.

There is a reason for this difference (gematria or a parable of a bride).

My question is, when Yom Kippur falls on shabbas, my machzor uses בו in neilah. Is there a reason for this (other than the editors forgot to differentiate)? Shouldn't it say בם since it is after mincha?

Alex
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sam
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    Who is ''we'' ? – Double AA Sep 16 '13 at 00:21
  • I am assuming everyone has same nusach – sam Sep 16 '13 at 00:39
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    Do you have a basis for that because it's usually a bad assumption? – Double AA Sep 16 '13 at 01:48
  • my nosa7 has bom throughout all tafilloth – MoriDowidhYa3aqov Sep 16 '13 at 02:04
  • @DoubleAA At least the Artscroll machzor uses bo. – Fred Sep 16 '13 at 02:25
  • @Fred Ashkenaz? If so consider editing that into the question. – Double AA Sep 16 '13 at 02:33
  • @DoubleAA If sam gives me permission, I could change "we use" to "the Ashkenaz Artscroll machzor uses", unless he wants to tells us of an additional machzor that uses bo. – Fred Sep 16 '13 at 02:39
  • @Fred That sounds to me like an edit which improves the question. If he has other machzorim in mind they can still be added. – Double AA Sep 16 '13 at 02:42
  • @DoubleAA Maybe he has seen this in several different machzorim, or in poskim who mention this nusach, since it seems like he might be insisting on generic wording. I hesitate to change it, at least until he has a chance to respond again. In the meanwhile, people may refrain from upvoting this otherwise good but currently unsubstantiated question. – Fred Sep 16 '13 at 02:48
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    My machzor has "bam". It's the standard "ivri-teitch" machzor, called Machzor Kol Bo Hechadash, nusach S'farad edition. Fwiw. – msh210 Sep 16 '13 at 02:52
  • From what I have seen on a regular shabbas ashkanaz and sefard have same nusach on the Yom naroim might be different that is why I made the question a generic one. – sam Sep 16 '13 at 02:55
  • What did it say for מנחה? – Seth J Sep 16 '13 at 17:26
  • @Fred Wait a minute... My Artscroll Ashkenaz YK machzor has bah. – Daniel Sep 16 '13 at 18:00
  • @Daniel It says bo in the pocket sized (Chaim Yechezkel). Is yours perhaps the full sized (Zichron Yosef)? Maybe that would explain the discrepancy. As far as bah, I guess the rationale would be comparing ne'ila to ma'ariv (assuming that the usage of bah was intentional). – Fred Sep 16 '13 at 20:14
  • @Fred Mine is the pocket sized Chaim Yechezkel. Am we talking about something different? I see bah on page 716 and again on 754 for chazaras hashatz. – Daniel Sep 16 '13 at 23:57
  • @Daniel Mine says bo in both places. I'm looking at the first edition, fourth impression (1996). – Fred Sep 17 '13 at 00:13
  • @Fred Mine is 16th impression (2008). Interesting. I guess they've changed their version. They must have a reason for that. So now I guess we see that different versions of the machzor have bo, bah, and bam. – Daniel Sep 17 '13 at 00:27
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    @sam So much for everyone having the same nussach... – Double AA Sep 17 '13 at 14:46
  • My Artscroll Ashkenaz Machzor also has Bam. – DonielF Oct 01 '17 at 15:03

1 Answers1

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In the Nusach Ari (Chabad) Siddur it says בו as in מוסף, the simple understanding is that נעילה has all similarities to מוסף than of מנחה; Namely, we (Chabad) say מי כמוך אב הרחמים (instead of הרחמן) by מוסף not by מנחה (unless it's Shabbos) but we also say it by נעילה. We (all נוסחאות that I've seen) say the Kedusha that is said by מוסף (rather than the one said by מנחה).

I would indicate that the Lubavitcher Rebbe writes on the page margin that לכאורה it should be בם (just like Mincha וצריך עיון. Some Chabad Machzorim incorporated בם in the actual text, but it was never changed during the Rebbe's time. (So some say בו and some say בם.)

Meir Zirkind
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