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I have always thought that as a general rule, the vav conjunctive prefix is usually a "וְ". But, when the word being "prefixed" either starts with a shva or starts with a "lip-letter" (בומ"פ), the vav changes to a "וּ" (kubutz).

However, I have come across a few of exceptions to the above rule, only one of which I actually remember at the moment. (Other examples are welcome as comments or as part of an answer.)

The exception I can think of right now is Exod. 10:8: "מִי וָמִי הַהֹלְכִים", in which I would think it should be "מִי וּמִי הַהֹלְכִים".

Why is it not "מִי וּמִי"? Is my above rule wrong or missing something, or is this just a particular exception, and if so, why?

jake
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  • Migrate to Hebrew.SE? – WAF Mar 24 '13 at 19:28
  • @WAF Unfortunately, probably true, even though I think I've found the answer.... :( – HodofHod Mar 24 '13 at 19:33
  • @HodofHod It's not so bad. They don't quite exist. Answer away! – WAF Mar 24 '13 at 19:38
  • Probably only the vav with a schwa changes to oo – Double AA Mar 24 '13 at 19:50
  • @WAF, I thought we're allowing Hebrew language questions here until beta starts for Hebrew.SE. – jake Mar 24 '13 at 19:59
  • @DoubleAA, Well then, I guess the question is why is this a vav with a kamatz as a conjunctive? – jake Mar 24 '13 at 20:00
  • @All, Anyone mind if I quote Hebrew grammar from a kofer, since I can't seem to find a Rabbinic source? Am I even allowed to? (Sounds like another question.) – HodofHod Mar 24 '13 at 20:07
  • @HodofHod, Please do. As per here, it seems acceptable, especially in a case like this, being that grammar seems to be a subject that has attracted more apikorsim than any other. – jake Mar 24 '13 at 20:10
  • @jake It's pretty standard form for the last word in a list when its accent is on the first syllable eg בשר ודם. Linguistically I can't say more than that. – Double AA Mar 24 '13 at 20:14
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    @WAF, Jake, I'm not actually sure, we seem to have closed quite a few purely Hebrew grammar questions before, http://judaism.stackexchange.com/search?q=%5Bgrammar-dikduk%5D+closed%3Ayes+is%3Aq. Also, http://meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/162/in-what-respects-are-hebrew-language-questions-in-scope?rq=1 – HodofHod Mar 24 '13 at 21:01
  • I was going to close unilaterally as off-topic but then I saw there'd been some debate here already. So consider my vote cast for closure instead. – msh210 Mar 25 '13 at 06:23
  • @msh210, Can we figure out what kind of Hebrew language questions are acceptable here? I just don't see a difference between these and many of these. – jake Mar 25 '13 at 06:44
  • @jake, the two highest-voted answers at http://meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/162 (one of which is yours) seem to agree with one another, and state that Hebrew-language question that arise from Jewish life & learning are on-topic where was those that don't so arise aren't. I'm not sure that rule's been consistently applied, but that seems to be the rule the community's agreed upon. I suppose this question is acceptable, actually, then, and I'm glad I didn't close it. :-) (Shockingly,) I don't have time just now to examine old questions and close/open according to the rule. – msh210 Mar 25 '13 at 06:55
  • @msh210, That's what I had previously assumed, that in general Biblical Hebrew is on topic here, having even asked a question or two on the topic in the past. Which is why I was surprised by WAF's and HodofHod's (and your) initial disapproval. – jake Mar 25 '13 at 07:01
  • @jake, my initial disapproval was because the question asks about the construction in general, only bringing an example from Tanach, rather than using the Tanach study as a motivation for the question. (And I don't agree with your restatement that Biblical Hebrew is on-topic. Questions on Jewish learning are on-topic, not questions about Biblical Hebrew in general.) I'm still uneasy about it, to be honest, but wouldn't vote to close. −1, though. – msh210 Mar 25 '13 at 07:04
  • @msh210, This as well? – jake Mar 25 '13 at 07:06
  • @jake, heehee, I upvoted that one. Call me inconsistent, I guess. :-) – msh210 Mar 25 '13 at 07:06
  • @msh210, Well, hopefully Hebrew.SE will start up soon, and this whole issue will become moot. Chag Sameach – jake Mar 25 '13 at 07:08

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According to Gesenius, you are mostly right. Usually, a vov will take a shuruk when preceding a labial consonant, as well as when preceding a simple shva. The exception seems to be when the vov is right before the accent, and the word is at the end of a clause, sentence, or group of nouns.

From Wikisource:

(e) Immediately before the tone-syllable [the Waw] frequently takes Qameṣ, like בְּ‎, כְּ‍‎, לְ‎ (see §102f), but in most cases only at the end of a sentence or clause (but cf. also וָכֹא‎ 1 K 2230), e.g. וָמֵ֖ת‎ Ex 2112 (on the other hand, in verse 20 וּמֵ֖תִ‎ is in closer logical connexion with what follows); 2 K 74 וָמַ֣הְנוּ שָׁ֔ם‎, וָמַ֑תָנוּ‎ and וָמָֽתְנוּ‎; Ru 33 וָסַֹכְתְּ‎; [Ps] 1015 וָ֝רָֹע‎; 1 S 94 וָאַ֔יִן‎; 2 S 1326 וָלֹ֔א‎; Ez 479 וָחָ֔י‎; cf. also (with Ṭiphḥa) Gn 3313, 2 S 1512. The very frequent connexion of nouns expressing kindred ideas, by means of וָ‎, is due simply to considerations of rhythm, for even in such cases the Wāw must immediately precede the tone-syllable, which must be marked by a disjunctive accent, e.g. תֹּ֫הוּ וָבֹ֫הוּ‎ Gn 12, יוֹם וָלַ֫יְלָה‎ Gn 822 (see also the previous examples); Gn 1314 (thrice); Ex 253 זָהָב נָכֶ֫סֶף‎; [Ps] 967 כָּבוֹד וָעֹז‎; [Ps] 767 וְרֶ֫כֶב וָסוּס‎; Gn 713 וְשֵׁם־וְחָם וָיֶ֫פֶת‎; נֹחַ‎ 1 K 2110 כֹּה וָכֹה ;אֱלֹהִים וָמֶ֑לֶךְ‎ thus and thus; Est 18 אִישׁ־וָאִֽישׁ‎ at the end of the verse, but in [Ps] 875 אִישׁ וְאִישׁ‎ in spite of the Deḥi with the second אִישׁ‎, because it is closely connected with the following predicate. Also with three words פַּ֫חַד וָפַ֫חַת וָפָ֑ה‎ Is 2417. [...]

msh210
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HodofHod
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  • I don't know if you want to edit the source, but this might be a better online presentation of Gesenius' grammar: http://www.davidcox.com.mx/library/G/Gesenius%20-%20Hebrew%20Grammar.pdf – Shimon bM Mar 25 '13 at 01:06
  • @ShimonbM I don't see an appreciable difference there, am I missing something? – HodofHod Mar 25 '13 at 06:45
  • @HodofHod - No, just that the PDF has the whole document in one piece, and you can skip to individual sections without needing to go through it chapter-by-chapter. You can search as well, and I don't know how sophisticated the search feature on Wikisource is. But if they're much of a muchness, I wouldn't worry about it. – Shimon bM Mar 25 '13 at 23:54
  • @ShimonbM Ah, takeh, I was upset that Wikibooks had no ability to search in books. Thanks for your addition then! (I think I'll leave mine up too, though, since you don't have to load an entire pdf to view it.) – HodofHod Mar 26 '13 at 00:11
  • HodofHod, you may wish to copy-paste this pretty much verbatim as an answer to http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/44381. – msh210 Aug 17 '14 at 06:58