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The last paragraph of Igros Moshe O.C. 2:40 discusses when you may order kosher food [such as a banana] in a non-kosher restaurant.

R' Moshe Feinstein begins:

ובדבר אם מותר לאכול ברעסטאראנט שמכינים שם רק מאכלי חלב אבל הם של אנשים מחללי שבת, הנה אף שם אפשר להיות כמה מאכלות אסורות כדגים טמאים, וגם השומן שמטגנים בהם אפשר שהם מבהמות אפודות ונבלות, וגם גבינות אסורות, ויש גם דברים שאסורים משום בשולי עכו״ם, ולכן אף ליכנס לשם לאכול דברים הידועים שאין בהם שום חשש איסור יש לאסור מפני מראית עין וחשד.‏

I'm trying to understand this, but I don't fully understand the Hebrew. Is there an English translation out there somewhere? If not, can you please translate the whole paragraph for me?

msh210
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unforgettableidSupportsMonica
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    להכין means to prepare. יש לאסור means "there is room to forbid." חשד is suspicion. This looks like more of a job for a dictionary. – b a Dec 06 '12 at 01:12
  • What do you mean to add by adding "completely" in square brackets? (And how is the restaurant completely non-kosher if it has bananas?) – msh210 Dec 06 '12 at 01:27
  • @ba: Thank you for the word translations. Yes, I could do more with a dictionary. But a non-religious dictionary isn't perfect for this purpose. Also, the second half of the paragraph uses quite a few more difficult Hebrew words. (continued...) – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 06 '12 at 01:32
  • I'm not sure if I should translate or transliterate חשד. (cont'd...) – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 06 '12 at 01:32
  • My friend Daniel Moskovich once told me he thinks יש להתרחק מ in Shulchan Aruch means "you shouldn't". Why do you think יש לאסור means just "there is room to forbid"? – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 06 '12 at 01:33
  • @msh210: I added "[completely]" to imply that R' Feinstein probably wasn't referring to cafeterias that also sell plastic-wrapped kosher muffins. You're right, "[completely]" conflicts with "kosher food". Feel free to edit. – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 06 '12 at 01:36
  • Basically, he's saying "don't do it." But it literally means that there is room to forbid it. If it's not followed by "ויש להתיר" or "אבל יש צד להתיר" etc. it probably means that there isn't room to permit it. – b a Dec 06 '12 at 01:39
  • the way I read the final statement, it says "therefore (because of all the above reasons -- foods and bishul akum) even to enter there to eat foods that one knows cause no concern that they are forbidden, [yesh la'asor] there is cause to forbid because of the concern over the suspicion of mar'is ayin." the yesh la'asor is not "asurim" but seems to be a rather strong indication of logic behind forbidding. – rosends Dec 06 '12 at 01:40
  • Also, Google Translate got every single word you had translated as "[???]". – b a Dec 06 '12 at 01:41
  • @ba: Where multiple translations are possible, a dictionary shows me every possible translation. Machine translation just picks one. So, dear all, do you really rely on machine translation when you don't understand part of a halachic work? – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 06 '12 at 02:18
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    The Bantam Megiddo Hebrew-English dictionary has them as well (except for יש לאסור, which is a phrase that can be figured out by the combination of יש and אסור). I only chose Google Translate because it's one that anyone using the internet can use. But for basic isolated words that you don't understand I actually do use Google Translate (when I don't have it in a print dictionary); I would only turn to some other way of finding it out if even Google Translate doesn't have it – b a Dec 06 '12 at 02:24
  • @ba: Intriguing: I've never used Google Translate as a dictionary before, but hope to try it. Thank you. When learning a paragraph of reliable halachic text that you can't begin to parse at all, you could use Google Translate and fiddle with the alternate translations it offers. If you ended up with something that made sense, would you personally rely on it for practical halacha? – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 06 '12 at 02:48
  • @unforgettableid It depends on the context. If I see "It's permitted to ?" grapes and it translates it as "to detach a fruit," I'd rely on it. If I see a line "It is permitted to do ?" with no other context, I wouldn't rely on it (without checking other online dictionaries, like Babylon, since Google Translate is not a conventional dictionary). – b a Dec 06 '12 at 03:27
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    But this only applies if it's something like modern Hebrew that wouldn't appear in reliable dictionaries like Dr. Jastrow's (which, incidentally, is online. – b a Dec 06 '12 at 03:27
  • Rav Moshe has a Tshuva not to translate his igros moshe,so there is no translated work. – sam Dec 06 '12 at 18:16
  • Is this not a sub of this question: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/208/5 – Seth J Feb 19 '13 at 19:27
  • @SethJ: Is this question a subquestion of that one? Sort of, yes. But still, they shouldn't be merged: the answers are too different. Plus, some amount of duplication on the site is fine. – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Feb 26 '13 at 20:14

3 Answers3

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And as for the matter of whether it's permissible to eat in a restaurant in which they prepare only dairy foods but which is of people who desecrate the sabbath, lo, even in that place there can be a number of forbidden foods such as non-kosher fishes, and the fat in which they fry [things] can be from non-kosher animals or animals not properly slaughtered, and [there may be] forbidden cheeses, and there will be things forbidden as having been cooked by a non-Jew. Thus, one should forbid even entering there to eat things that are known to lack even a suspicion of prohibition, because of mar'is ayin [=others' seeing it] and suspicion [of the one entering]. But if he's exceedingly hungry, that he's in a great deal of discomfort, and there's nowhere else to eat in that area, he can enter there to eat things known [to be] permitted, but this must be secretly: for in a case of pain and loss the rabbis did not decree, as is [noted] in K'suvos daf 60. That is, outside [the restaurant] should not be people who recognize him: for before the people inside, well, they'll see he's taking only things known [to be] permitted. If people who recognize him are there, outside, he must tell them he's in a great deal of discomfort so is entering there to take something known [to be] permitted. But without his being in a great deal of discomfort, he should not enter there at all.

Do not trust my translation for halachic purposes! Consult your rabbi.

msh210
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  • In the question you translated "אבל הם של אנשים מחללי שבת" as "run by non-Sabbath observers". I don't know whether he's referring to operation or ownership, so I wrote (the not very idiomatic) "but which is of people who desecrate the sabbath". – msh210 Dec 06 '12 at 01:41
  • Thank you very much for your translation. One point: Imagine that the owners were non-Sabbath-observers but the operators were complete Sabbath-observers, and that I was wearing a kippah. If this were true, then I believe it's exceedingly unlikely that the operators would serve me anything non-kosher. If anything was non-kosher, I assume they'd refuse to serve it to me. – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 06 '12 at 02:26
  • If I credit you, then may I please copy your answer and heavily edit it to create a new answer? – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 06 '12 at 02:27
  • @unforgettableid I suppose so, why not. – msh210 Dec 06 '12 at 14:40
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Elsewhere Rabbi Feinstein clarifies two different concerns when doing something that has the appearance of impropriety; both of which apply here:

Maris Ayin:

"I saw a top contributor to J.SE eating there, so everything there must be 100% kosher!"

Or a fascinating corollary:

"Okay officially the websites say it's not recommended, but if a top contributor to J.SE does it, it must not really be that bad.

Chashad:

"What?! Mr. top-contributor-to-J.SE did such a terrible horrible thing?! He's an awful person!"

(And Moshe Rabbeinu tells the Reuben-and-Gadites "to be absolved of G-d and Israel", i.e. we are not allowed to trash our own reputations.)

Shalom
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    I don't understand the correlation between top contributors at J.SE and being expected to do good things. – Double AA Dec 06 '12 at 05:24
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Here is my heavily-copyedited version of the translation that msh210 did. I also thank b a and R' Tzvi Hirsch Haber; their translation work helped me too. All errors in this version are mine, not theirs.

Are you allowed to eat in a dairy restaurant run by non-Sabbath-observers? Even here, there may be non-kosher foods. For example, certain fats, cheeses, and kinds of fish; plus foods forbidden because they were cooked by non-Jews. Don't go in even to eat definitely-kosher food, due to [a prohibition called] maris ayin and [a different prohibition called] chashad. But if you're exceedingly hungry, i.e. in a lot of discomfort, and there's nowhere else to eat in the area, you can go in to eat definitely-kosher food. This is because the rabbis didn't enact their edicts in a case of pain or loss (tractate Kesubos 60). But you must do so secretly. Nobody outside the restaurant should recognize you. (The people inside will see that you're only eating kosher.) If people who recognize you are outside, you must tell them that, because you're in a lot of discomfort, you're going in to eat kosher food. But if you're not in a lot of discomfort, don't go in at all.

Notes:

  • There are other cases where there may be no problem whatsoever to enter the venue. These may include many cafeterias (see the relevant articles by R' Yirmiyohu Kaganoff and R' Eli Gersten) and certain business meetings in non-kosher restaurants.

  • Do not trust this translation for halachic purposes.

  • Consult your rabbi.

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