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The "Mourners' Kaddish" and the "Rabbis' Kaddish" are said by mourners: either all instances are said by all mourners in the synagogue simultaneously, or each mourner gets a turn at one kaddish, or some other custom. but they are said by mourners, if present, regardless of who is leading the service.

"Half-Kaddish" and "Full-Kaddish", on the other hand, are said by only the prayer leader, irrespective of whether he is a mourner.

Why? What is it about the different kaddishes that causes this difference in who recites them?

Double AA
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Daniel
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  • @DoubleAA, I don't understand why you edited as you did: the question was about why some instances of kadish are said by mourners and others by leaders; you changed it to be about how many people say it simultaneously. – msh210 Aug 01 '12 at 20:59
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    @msh210 I had assumed that the leader was a mourner as well, but you are correct that it is unclear. Rolled back until further clarification. – Double AA Aug 01 '12 at 21:01
  • @DoubleAA: Do you need further clarification? In general, the leader probably would be a mourner, but I don't think that's really relevant to this question? – Daniel Aug 01 '12 at 21:07
  • @Daniel Yes just to clarify: is your question why multiple a mourner/mourners can't say the chazzan's kaddeishim, or why mourners don't sub-in for the leader at kaddish moments? – Double AA Aug 01 '12 at 21:09
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    @DoubleAA Also on Shabbos or Rosh Chodesh, etc. the leader is probably not a mourner, but the same thing happens. – Daniel Aug 01 '12 at 21:10
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    @DoubleAA, I'm basically asking why there is a difference between kaddeishim said by the chazan and those that are not? – Daniel Aug 01 '12 at 21:11
  • @Daniel, How's it now? – Seth J Aug 01 '12 at 21:24
  • (I also translated it) – Seth J Aug 01 '12 at 21:25
  • @Daniel Sorry but that doesn't specify what the difference is that you are seeking a cause of. – Double AA Aug 01 '12 at 21:35
  • @DoubleAA, the main thing that I am wondering about is why mourners say kaddish d'rabanan even though it is not the "mourner's kaddish" but they do not say the other versions. I just asked it the way that I did in order to provide a possibility for a more general answer. – Daniel Aug 01 '12 at 21:46
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    Thank you to everybody who edited the question. I think this accurately reflects what I am trying to ask. – Daniel Aug 01 '12 at 21:48
  • So the question is why don't individual or all mourners sub for the general Chazzan at all kaddish times? This is what @msh210 apparently thinks at least. – Double AA Aug 01 '12 at 22:09
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    @DoubleAA No. The question is why are particular kaddishes said by a different set of people than other particular kaddishes. I think the question as currently formulated is asking that. – Daniel Aug 01 '12 at 22:56
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    @Daniel I've updated the title to match what you are saying. Previously it had been asking why the rest of kaddishes are not said by mourners. You seem to asking from both sides. – Double AA Aug 02 '12 at 00:19
  • @msh210, I've never seen that taking-turns custom. Unless I'm not understanding what you mean. What/who/where/why? – Seth J Aug 02 '12 at 01:25
  • You confuse the issue by calling the Orphan's Kaddish the Mourner's kaddish. It is designed for children to recite, since children can't lead the davening. But regular mourners lead the davening and recite the kaddishes within the davening proper. See the Aruch HaShulchan YD 376:12-13 for all the details. – Curiouser Aug 02 '12 at 01:31
  • @SethJ, I've never seen it AFAIR but I understand it was the original minhag, now adapted into taking turns for leading the services instead. See e.g. Beur Halacha 132, about who says the first kadish, who the second, etc. – msh210 Aug 02 '12 at 02:26
  • Even Mourners Kaddish anyone can say - a mourner also says it, so that he brings Teshuvah to himself and the Deceased he's comemorating. –  Jan 21 '14 at 18:53

2 Answers2

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Originally, there were 7 kaddishes for tefila,

3 during the morning service:

  1. Following pesukei d'zimra
  2. Following shemona esre
  3. Following uva letzion

2 during the afternoon service:

  1. Following ashrei
  2. Following tachanun

2 during the evening service:

  1. Preceding shemona esre
  2. Following shemona esre

This was based on the verse "I praised you 7 times a day" (Tehillim 119:164) (Aruch haShulchan OC 55:4 based on Rokeach)

Later 3 more kaddishes were added after Aleinu. This was to allow mourners who were unable to lead the service to recite kaddish. Susequently, an additional kaddish was added after the yom (Aruch haShulchan)

It seems the original 7 were the purview of the leader, whereas the other kaddishes were allotted to the mourners.

Additionally we say a kaddish after the tehilla of chanukas habayis ledavid which (I recall learning but have to remember where) was added for additional mourners at the time when universally only 1 mourner said kaddish.

The kaddish derabannan may be said by anyone in the group that has learned torah shebaal pe, there is no leader. The custom is to let the mourner to say it, but even a non-mourner can say it.

YDK
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0

There are different forms of kaddish which serve different functions.

Wikipedia correctly states, “In the liturgy different versions of the Kaddish are used functionally as separators between sections of the service.” Those are Half-Kaddish and Full-Kaddish.

This site gives a slightly more detailed explanation of the same point and says that the “Mourner’s Kaddish,” was specially allocated for mourners and placed after independent portions of the prayers, (most importantly after “Oleinu” - my addition).

ADDITION after Daniel's comment below: The site quoted adds that "The “Learner’s Kaddish,” or kaddish derabanan (Heb. קדיש דרבנן) is recited after a section of the prayer service that include an excerpt from Rabbinic teachings. When there is a mourner in the synagogue, he would say this kaddish too. When there is not, the leader of the prayers should say it.

Avrohom Yitzchok
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