Why isn't there kaddish derabanan after the "sermon"?

Question

The related question discusses what kind of learning is needed to bring forth a kaddish derabanan. In many minyanim, some learning (or a two-minute quick drash by someone) is undertaken between mincha and ma'ariv and is followed by a kaddish derabanan.

But I have not seen the kaddish derabanan said after a sermon by the rav on a Shabbat morning. The content certainly is equal to or more comprehensive than a short vort in the evening (and one could certainly add the "R. Chananya" passage).

Why hasn't having a kaddish derabanan become instituted at that part of the davening?

There's already a Kaddish literally right after. No need to add extra Kaddishes. — Double AA, Jun 21 '18 at 22:35
@DoubleAA but if this quote is accurate "And this is what the Rambam says: Whenever there are ten or more Jews who are involved in learning Torah Sheba'al Peh, even Midrashim or Agados, when they finish one of them says standing up Kaddish D'Rabanan. (משנה תורה, סדר התפילה ל)" then it wouldn't be extra, nor could it be replaced by a chatzi kaddish before musaf. — rosends, Jun 21 '18 at 22:38
How could saying Kaddish twice in succession not be extra?? Btw Chatzi Kaddish is a misnomer. That's the whole Kaddish. At the conclusion of a service we customarily add extra nice things after (similar to Harachmans after Bentching) depending on the service completed (prayer:titkabel, Talmud:Al rabanan, etc.) Here the service is continuing so we wouldn't add (assuming anyone historically cared to think about this; most kaddish common practices are dictated by where sidurim tend to print it or where mourners insist on saying it; rabbis generally have minimal control here.) — Double AA, Jun 21 '18 at 22:39
In my shul I've sort of assumed that we don't say kaddish because there is kaddish later in davening. But when we have a scholar in residence who speaks after davening we don't say kaddish. Yet if he speaks between Mincha and Maariv we do. Very inconsistent. — manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact, Jun 21 '18 at 23:14
@DoubleAA is there something in derabanan which has to do with concluding the service which would make the conclusion inappropriate at that point? [this begs questions about what is concluding after the vort which isn't concluding after a sermon, and what is concluding before mizmor shir that isn't before musaf] — rosends, Jun 21 '18 at 23:16
@rosends did I not address that in my above comments? If the group couldn't be breaking up then they aren't concluding. [The formal public shacharit goes from Yishtabach till after Uva Letzion. Places that have a study session after or before Shacharit (such as learning about Korbanot or reciting daily/seasonal Psalms, etc.) would say a Kaddish afterwards, if there was a Minyan for it.] — Double AA, Jun 21 '18 at 23:31
@Heshy Only in some communities. In Eastern Europe 100 years ago there wasn't. — Double AA, Jun 21 '18 at 23:37
@rosends, unsolicited realistic advice: I honestly understand that to someone whose conception of practical Kaddish law is based on 'standard Minhag America' in the last 50 years my comments above won't look compelling or convincing. If you can find a consistent theory of Kaddish that matches with that conception, I'm all ears. But as far as I can tell, any real questions into when and how Kaddish is said all end with "because [that's what the mourners do]." It rarely make much sense. So practically sociologically I'm quite confident guessing no one thought to add a Kaddish here because there — Double AA, Jun 22 '18 at 00:54
already is a Kaddish here. Is that a compelling reason? Maybe. Does it matter? Not really to anyone who practices the 'standard Minhag America'. I can yell and scream and cite sources and it won't change 99.999% of mourners' minds. If you are open minded about being different then keep delving into the history and sources. If you want to stick with what you're used to, then you'll have to get used to accepting half-baked guesses. I don't mean to insult. Doing Kaddish for a parent like you're used to is tremendously religiously meaningful to many people. Just realize that IMHO Mi Yodeya, with — Double AA, Jun 22 '18 at 00:54
its clear, focused Q&A format, is going to be ill-suited for this genre of questions where the answers are generally murky recent historical anomalies or unpopular rejections of common heartfelt practices. (You can flag these all of course. This is just off the record as a fellow Yodeyan.) — Double AA, Jun 22 '18 at 00:55
@DoubleAA But that write up is the most clear, honest, succinct and to the point presentation I have heard and it actually satisfies my curiosity completely. — rosends, Jun 22 '18 at 00:58
So be it :) consider issues like https://judaism.stackexchange.com/posts/comments/262141 https://judaism.stackexchange.com/posts/comments/260217 https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/5667/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/83648/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/71383/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/posts/comments/262788 https://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/75687/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/66455/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/posts/comments/298702 https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/70772/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/18231/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/83822/ — Double AA, Jun 22 '18 at 01:45
@dou Seems you've an answer. I recommend you post it as such. — msh210, Jun 22 '18 at 05:14
My Mizrachi friends say R' Chananyah and then Kaddish Al Yisrael. @Heshy Not all say that Kaddish. (I invite the moderator to clean up the comments.) — Kazi bácsi, Jun 22 '18 at 05:35

Why isn't there kaddish derabanan after the "sermon"?

0 Answers0