19

(Based on Tosfot Pesachim 116a and Aruch haShulchan 274:5 I assume that the man did not fall on Yom Tov and double fell on Erev Yom Tov, and that this is why we have lechem mishne on Yom Tov.)

When Yom Tov fell on Friday in the desert, did three times the normal amount of man fall on Thursday, to last through Shabbat? If so, does anyone discuss having three challot at meals on a Friday Yom Tov?

Double AA
  • 98,894
  • 6
  • 250
  • 713
  • @SethJ I wrote Mishlesh to parallel Mishneh whereas I thought Mishulesh parallels Meshuneh. Are you sure about your spelling? – Double AA Feb 06 '12 at 00:44
  • M'shulash parallels m'shune; m'shulesh doesn't sound like a Hebrew word; and I don't know what the parallel of mishne would be (mishlash maybe? mishlesh?). Fwiw. – msh210 Feb 06 '12 at 00:50
  • maybe you can say the real reason is the second answer bought here – simchastorah Feb 06 '12 at 00:53
  • @msh210 see Bereishit 15:9 – Double AA Feb 06 '12 at 00:57
  • @simchashatorah I don't understand. – Double AA Feb 06 '12 at 00:59
  • @DoubleAA, what are you trying to prove from there? – msh210 Feb 06 '12 at 01:00
  • @msh210 meshulash doesn't sound like three of a kind but aged 3 years. I'm going to rollback the title change for now to retain the 'pun' effect. – Double AA Feb 06 '12 at 01:02
  • @DoubleAA, m'shulash is present-tense pual, passive form, of l'shalesh, "to make into three", so means "tripled" or "third" depending on context. (Usually the former.) In modern Hebrew, I believe a triangle is called m'shulash (as a noun) for the same reason. Cf. 1 Sam. 20:19. – msh210 Feb 06 '12 at 01:05
  • 2
    Rashi to Shemot 16:26 brings this idea as well: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9877/showrashi/true#v26 – Menachem Feb 06 '12 at 01:11
  • @Menachem Thank you. Rashi mentions Yom Kippur as well. I wonder if there was Lechem Mishneh the day before for the seudat mafseket and break-fast. Also I wonder if there was extra for sick people to eat on YK itself. – Double AA Feb 06 '12 at 01:15
  • the real reason is not the double portion but the things mentioned in that tertz is weak but possible – simchastorah Feb 06 '12 at 01:19
  • 2
    Tosfot in Beitza 2B (V'Haya BaYom) says that the Midrashim are divided whether the Manna fell on Yom Tov or not, but concludes that even if it did fall on Yom Tov, it did not fall on a Yom Tov that fell on a Friday - http://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=8&daf=2b&format=pdf – Menachem Feb 06 '12 at 01:21
  • @simchashatorah Are you saying that the reason for Lechem Mishneh is not the double portion the Jews got in the dessert on Fridays, but rather some pre-commemoration of an event the midrash predicts will happen in the future? – Double AA Feb 06 '12 at 01:21
  • @Menachem Thank you again! and Kol Shekein I have a quesion. – Double AA Feb 06 '12 at 01:23
  • @DoubleAA: Interesting thought. Rashi is quoting the Mechilta, which mentions Yom Kippur: http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40607&pgnum=116 – Menachem Feb 06 '12 at 01:25
  • I hesitated to make the change for the usual reason of respecting others' transliteration scheme (which is why I left the 'e' and did not replace it with an 'a'), but I thought that as it was it was too far off from a real word to let it go... – Seth J Feb 06 '12 at 01:28
  • FWIW, R. Alcalay has 'Meshulash' for 'Triple'. – Seth J Feb 06 '12 at 01:29
  • @Menachem I think this deserves a separate question. But I'm going to wait to ask it until we have answers here because something tells that whoever discusses the issue about Friday yom tov will also discuss Yom Kippur. – Double AA Feb 06 '12 at 01:29
  • I do not believe 'Mishlesh' is a word, but I'm checking other dictionaries. (cc @msh210) – Seth J Feb 06 '12 at 01:30
  • 1
    Mishneh is for sure the parallel for Meshulash (and vice versa). Mishneh means double (as in Mishneh Torah); Meshulash means triple. I cannot find an entry for Mishlesh or any mention of it as an alternate translation for 'triple' in any English-Hebrew dictionaries. – Seth J Feb 06 '12 at 01:37
  • @SethJ , msh210 : I spoke to a friend of mine who is quite the grammarian and he said that Mishne means second not double (like mishneh lamelech) and therefore the next ordinal would be shalish meaning tertiary. – Double AA Feb 07 '12 at 18:01
  • @DoubleAA, in meaning maybe (though I have my doubts). Not in form. – msh210 Feb 07 '12 at 18:08
  • @DoubleAA Mishneh means the same as Sheini? I do not believe that is correct. I assume you mean secondary? As for tertiary, in modern Hebrew it is Shelishuni (per Google Translate, not that that is authoritative). Shalish indeed means third, but not the ordinal number; it is the fraction, 1/3. – Seth J Feb 07 '12 at 18:48
  • Anyway, no dictionaries had Mishlesh as a word. – Seth J Feb 07 '12 at 18:50
  • @DoubleAA, FWIW, I still stand by my comments above. Meshulash = triple. Mishlesh ≠ triple (or any word, for that matter). – Seth J Jul 05 '12 at 20:49
  • @ba Much obliged! – Double AA Jul 10 '12 at 23:32
  • @msh210 Is there a mod way to throw just the grammar comments into a linked chatroom? They're quite cloggy. – Double AA Jul 10 '12 at 23:34
  • @DoubleAA only the same way anyone can: copy-paste. They are a bit much, but they do relate directly to the question so I don't plan to delete them en masse. You're welcome to delete the ones you authored, of course. – msh210 Jul 10 '12 at 23:36
  • Meshekh Chokhma says the miracle of three isn't more than the miracle of two bc either was it survived the night, so no need to commemorate it differently – Double AA Jan 19 '19 at 17:52
  • I guess it's the same word triple as in "Purim Meshulash" – Double AA Feb 12 '21 at 13:55

1 Answers1

3

There is a Machlokes whether the Man fell on Yom Tov or not. The Gra in Hilchos Pesach discusses whether there should be 2 or 3 Matzos on the Ka'ara. According to the Rif since you do not need Lechem Mishna on Yom Tov, therefore even after you break the Matza at Yachatz you can still make Hamotzi on the remaining 1 1/2 Matzohs. (Rabbi Moshe Feinstein Zatzal also only used 2 Matzos at the Seder - per Artscroll Hagada based on Rabbi Moshe Feinstein Zatzal)

Even according to those that hold that you do need Lechem Mishna on Yom Tov the reason for Lechem Mishna on Shabbos is not because there were 2 breads for Shabbos, it is because double bread fell on Friday. To remember this miracle we have 2 breads on Shabbos. That 3 breads fell on a Thursday is not a change in the fact of the miracle.

My own reason not to use 3 is that Shabbos is more holy than Yom Tov and it is inappropriate to use 3 on Yom Tov when you only use 2 on Shabbos.

Gershon Gold
  • 139,471
  • 12
  • 231
  • 553
  • I was only asking according to those who say it did fall. 2) We should have 3 breads to remember the even greater miracle. 3) I was imagining having 3 for both Friday yom tov and Shabbat just like we usually have 2 for Friday night and 2 for Shabbat day. 4) Source?
    • – Double AA Feb 07 '12 at 18:05
  • 1
    Also, it isn't so clear that those who use 2 matzot hold that the man did fall. Maybe the half can count as a second loaf even if not complete because of lehem oni. – Double AA Feb 07 '12 at 18:07