Most of the amida requests are said in the plural: "forgive us… heal us…". Who's "us"? I'd think it's Jews generally — but in the final benediction we ask for beneficence for "us and your entire nation Israel". So is "us" the group praying together, perhaps? Or who? And if it's all Jews, how do we explain "us and your entire nation Israel" in the last benediction?
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h/t https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/48308924#48308924 – msh210 Dec 31 '18 at 23:42
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Related: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/89853/prayer-singular-vs-plural – Alex Jan 01 '19 at 03:19
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https://www.google.co.il/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/dapey/dapim/roz-avodashebalev-sikum.doc&ved=2ahUKEwjG3uqhjszfAhURaVAKHZvdBUAQFjAEegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1t2gP-b-QK7TlempGqabuX – kouty Jan 01 '19 at 08:00
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- Can it be a subject to a particular person's intentions? Some think that and some think the other? 2. Why can't it be both, like in MishBerach we can say "bless me, and my whole family and the congregation and the Jews in Israel and the whole world" where each next includes all the previous?
– Al Berko Jan 01 '19 at 08:32 -
1This also comes to a head in the 13th b'racha ("Av harachaman . . ."), which might be a clue to an answer. We list all these groups of people and then append "and us" to the list, implying that the latter is either excluded or at least not fully overlapping with the prior ones. I once went to a shi'ur focused on your question applied to that b'racha. – WAF Jan 01 '19 at 11:25
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I think this is all Israel. It's written in Tanya but I don't find the text. – kouty Jan 01 '19 at 12:23
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These days, those of us davening are from Mamlechet Yehuda. But we daven on behalf even of those from beit Yisrael who don't know they have to daven. – rosends Jan 01 '19 at 12:32
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Related https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/61564/759 – Double AA Jan 01 '19 at 13:08
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I think the only intention (as the Gemmorah in Brochos I think - כל המתפלל על חבירו נענה תחילה) is not to daven for oneself, so whatever we mean it includes others and that's the point. – Al Berko Jan 01 '19 at 14:00
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@AlBerko Yad, Hilchot Tefillah, 1:2: https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Prayer_and_the_Priestly_Blessing.1?lang=he – Yaacov Deane Jan 01 '19 at 15:54
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I suspect the primary intention is the local community, which traditionally prayed (prays) together in the local synagogue (at least ideally). Compare, e.g., the language of the Aramaic and Hebrew prayers following kriat hatorah for Shabbat and Moadim (yekum purkan, etc.). – Loewian Aug 21 '19 at 16:29
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Most of them refer to the entirety of the Jewish nation (See Sefer שמונה עשרה המבואר on the first נו in the בקשות [beseeching] section of Shmonah Esrei which is וחננו מאיתך on page 258). For example, in Yom Tov Shemonah Esrei we say (some parts of this we only say at certain times such as when Yom Tov coincides with Friday night or Saturday night)
וַתּודִיעֵנוּ ה' אֱלהֵינוּ אֶת מִשְׁפְּטֵי צִדְקֶךָ וַתְּלַמְּדֵנוּ לַעֲשות בָּהֶם חֻקֵּי רְצונֶךָ וַתִּתֶּן לָנוּ ה' אֱלהֵינוּ מִשְׁפָּטִים יְשָׁרִים וְתורות אֱמֶת חֻקִּים וּמִצְות טובִים וַתַּנְחִילֵנוּ זְמַנֵּי ששון וּמועֲדֵי קודֶשׁ וְחַגֵּי נְדָבָה. וַתּורִישֵׁנוּ קְדֻשַּׁת שַׁבָּת וּכְבוד מועֵד וַחֲגִיגַת הָרֶגֶל וַתַּבְדֵּל ה' אֱלהֵינוּ בֵּין קודֶשׁ לְחול בֵּין אור לְחשֶׁךְ בֵּין יִשרָאֵל לָעַמִּים בֵּין יום הַשְּׁבִיעִי לְשֵׁשֶׁת יְמֵי הַמַּעֲשה בֵּין קְדֻשַּׁת שַׁבָּת לִקְדֻשַּׁת יום טוב הִבְדַּלְתָּ וְאֶת יום הַשְּׁבִיעִי מִשֵׁשֶׁת יְמֵי הַמַעֲשה קִדַּשְׁתָּ הִבְדַּלְתָּ וְקִדַּשְׁתָּ אֶת עַמְּךָ יִשרָאֵל בִּקְדֻשָּׁתֶךָ: וַתִּתֶּן לָנוּ ה' אֱלהֵינוּ בְּאַהֲבָה לשבת שַׁבָּתות לִמְנוּחָה וּ מועֲדִים לְשמְחָה חַגִּים וּזְמַנִּים לְששון אֶת יום:
All the נוs over there need to refer to the Jewish nation as a whole.
However, Pathway to Prayer by Rav Mayer Birnbaum explains the words "הוּא יַעֲשה שָׁלום עָלֵינוּ וְעַל כָּל יִשרָאֵל." to mean "may he make peace... on those of us here (praying together) and on all of Israel.
I assume that the reason we pray for peace for those of us praying here together separately from the rest of the Jewish nation is because among one community there is unfortunately often a lot of internal discord so it necessitates its own separate prayer (and there's probably also a lot of value in having the members of one community pray for peace with each other).
See also Sefer נפשי חולת אהבתיך pages 444-449 for several other answers.
Eliyahu
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Brachos 30 אמר אביי, לעולם לישתף איניש נפשיה בהדי ציבורא Abaye says that one should always include himself with the community. By praying in a plural form we include ourselves with the community.
Rashi says אל יתפלל תפלה קצרה בלשון יחיד אלא בלשון רבים שמתוך כך תפלתו נשמעת one should pray in a plural form in order for his prayer to be accepted.
Gershon Gold
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1This is only citations about the importance of praying with a minyan. And each citation is only the opinion of single individuals. It completely ignores the question from the OP. – Yaacov Deane Jan 01 '19 at 16:58
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3@YaacovDeane Rashi clearly is not talking about a Minyan. Rashi says Lashon Rabim. – Gershon Gold Jan 01 '19 at 17:01
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@GershonGold Rashi is commenting on the statement of Abaye beginning on Brachot 29b. Abaye is emphasizing the importance of praying with a minyan. Rashi is showing how when you are traveling alone. – Yaacov Deane Jan 01 '19 at 17:53
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2@YaacovDeane I disagree with your understanding of this answer. It is clear to me from this Gemara and Rashi that one should pray in plural not that one should pray with a Minyan. – Gershon Gold Jan 01 '19 at 17:57
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@GershonGold There’s no question that one should always, preferably pray in the plural. There are many different sources and reasons for the practice. But the subject there is for tefillat HaDerech, which starts when you are leaving. Not in the minyan at shul. That’s why the 1st version is presented in the singular. Abaye addresses whether as an individual, one will merit to have their prayer heard & answered. But the minyan isn’t leaving on the trip. Could be understood as a falsehood. Rashi clarifies what the individual is doing. – Yaacov Deane Jan 01 '19 at 20:34
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This doesn't even attempt to answer the question of "And if it's all Jews, how do we explain "us and your entire nation Israel" in the last benediction?" – Eliyahu Aug 20 '19 at 02:32
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The blessing of wisdom is ambiguos. Likely based on the Talmud (Nidah 70b) from the verse (Mishley 2:6). However, this verse refers to Torah acquisition (Malbim ad. loc., Midrash Tehilim 2:2; Vayikra Rabbah 11:3), and the Torah is ours.
Return us to your torah, makes the relationship clear.
Forgive us our Father, makes the relationship clear.
Our pain, ends in redeemer of Israel.
Heal us, ends in healer of Israel.
Last blessing of us and your entire nation Israel, is equally separated towards the end, it shall be good in your eyes to bless us and to bless the entire nation Israel. This indeed distinguishes the present congregation from the nation. The relationship is also clear because it says bless us our Father.
Dr. Shmuel
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I like to think that I’m Davening for myself and my wife. But you can have in mind whoever you feel a part of when pleading to the King.
Yaakov Kahana
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1Welcome to MiYodeya Yaakov and thanks for this first answer. Can I recommend you take the tour to get a sense of how the site works? Also since MY is different from other sites you might be used to, see here for a guide which might help understand the site. See in particular the focus on sourcing your answers. Great to have you learn with us! – mbloch Aug 20 '19 at 04:10