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The Shulchan Aruch (OC 473:2) rules that after the first cup at the seder, one doesn't make an after bracha. The Mishnah Berurah (s.k. 11) explains that we rely on benching after the meal to cover it, or the bracha achronah after the last cup.

I've heard that the poskim ask how can we rely on this, when (usually speaking) Maggid can take over an hour to complete, usually meaning that the shiur ikkul has passed (a person is as thirsty now as they were before they drank), making them lose their after bracha.

What are the answers to this question? I'm looking for as many as possible.

Double AA
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robev
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    Doesn't the same issue apply to Karpas? (At least for those Rishonim who held Maror doesn't need a separate HaAdama.) – Double AA Mar 28 '18 at 15:52
  • There's a general question similar to this (sort of like https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/60387/759): suppose i eat a shiur of eggs and then want to sip coffee for hours. by the time i will finish the coffee my ikkul for the eggs is up and i never had a shiur of coffee fast enough so i end up with no bracha acharona. What do you do? (The Seder case is a bit different since Ashkenazim don't need the Gefen to last to the second cup.) – Double AA Mar 28 '18 at 16:04
  • Perhaps related to this question is why do we need to make a separate bracha rishona for each cup? Generally, if you make a bracha on food and you plan to eat more of it within a certain time period, you don't need to repeat the bracha. – DanF Mar 28 '18 at 17:07
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    @DanF the Mishnah Berurah (474 s.k. 4) says either because we couldn't drink during the Haggadah, so it's a hefsek, or each cup is its own mitzvah deserving a bracha. Neither reason adds much to the question here. Although the first reason could strengthen the question why not make a bracha achronah. Besides, the SA rules you don't make a bracha on the 2nd cup – robev Mar 28 '18 at 17:10
  • I do not remember right now exactly where (maybe Gemara Chulin by waiting from meat to milk?), but there are opinions that even for drinks the shiur ikkul is 6 hours. – David Kenner Mar 28 '18 at 17:55
  • @alex after blessing. For Rashbam, you eat all the karpas you want, don't say an after blessing, your adama exempts the Maror, and bentching covers it all. But what if Maggid takes two hours? Just like you ran out of time for an after blessing on Kiddush, so too you ran out of time for an after blessing on Karpas. it's the same question. How can we not say an after blessing? How can we rely on birkat hamazon when Maggid takes longer than shiur ikkul? – Double AA Mar 29 '18 at 05:06
  • An interesting possible solution here is not to drink a Reviit at Kiddush, and suffice with a Malei Lugmav – Double AA Mar 29 '18 at 11:58
  • @DavidKenner What do you mean by "even"? It's not like solids take 6 hours and the doubt is just about liquids. It just depends how much you ate. There is no fixed number. – Double AA Mar 29 '18 at 16:51
  • @DoubleAA there is a svara to say that liquids may digest faster than solids. – David Kenner Mar 29 '18 at 19:30
  • @DavidKenner It's not just a svara. It's metzius. – Double AA Mar 29 '18 at 19:31
  • theres a koivetz "im toeeru", (advertised in yated,) that has a whole shtikel toirah going thru this whole issue. from reb yitzchock koslowitz. a very nice piece indeed. – moish Mar 30 '18 at 04:27

2 Answers2

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I've heard two. Rav Yitzchak Berkowitz brings that Rav Shlomo Zalman Aueurbach would drink liquids throughout the Haggadah (not being concerned with the opinion of the Ramban that forbids drinking during the Haggadah) so that he never became thirsty to avoid this issue. Rav Shternbuch (Teshuvos VeHanhagos 1:305) answers with a big innovation: the shiur ikkul is only when eating/drinking for pleasure, not for a mitzvah.

robev
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  • Interesting, I heard from R' Akiva Greenberg of Vishnitz who taught me in Mesivta, that the Lubavitcher Rebbe said similarly, "Divrei Torah by the meal is not a hefsek". I am not sure about all the parameters in all cases, but it was said to me regarding time between the brachah rishonah and acharonah. Rav Shternbuch and Chabad agreeing to innovate such a chiddush ? :-) – David Kenner Mar 28 '18 at 17:53
  • @DavidKenner "Divrei Torah by the meal is not a hefsek" and "shiur ikkul is only when eating/drinking for pleasure, not for a mitzvah" don't seem to be remotely similar claims? – Double AA Mar 29 '18 at 16:53
  • @DoubleAA I heard: "If in general you are speaking in Torah or reading Maggid, telling the Story of Yetzias Mitzrayim, etc. the time used involved in that will not be considered when calculating how long you have waited to make a brachah acharonah before losing your chance to make one." I assume a mitzvah is a parallel and similar idea to Torah learning. – David Kenner Mar 29 '18 at 19:29
  • @DavidKenner I think you're misunderstanding what's going on here. The claim here isn't that doing Mitzvot of the Haggada is not a Hefsek. It's that drinking which is for a Mitzva (like drinking Kiddush wine) isn't bound by a time limit of shiur ikkul. – Double AA Mar 29 '18 at 19:30
  • @DoubleAA hmm if so, then can you make the after brachah next wednesday? – David Kenner Mar 29 '18 at 20:35
  • @davidkenner don't know, but I'd assume r shternbuch addresses that – Double AA Mar 29 '18 at 20:36
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I heard someone speak about this in the Alumni Beis Medrash (adjacent to Beis Shalom of BMG Lakewood NJ). Two of the points made were as follows

  1. R’ Eliyashiv after hearing about this problem from R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (his mechutan) was makpid that from the first kos to second kos be less than an hour; this way it definitely wouldn’t need a separate bracha achrona.

  2. He asked this question to R’ Dovid Soleveichik, who answered: you’re right, but a mesora is a mesora!! and that is what the Shulchan Aruch says to do.

mbloch
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Yehoshua Levin
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