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If there was less than a minyan during the Amida and the participants continued on then the 10th comes in when they are ready for Kaddish Shalem. Do they say Kaddish Shalem at that point? Or do we say the Kaddish is on the Amida and since there was no minyan then there is no Kaddish now?

For example, Shabbos Rosh Chodesh, there was no minyan until the congregation was in middle of Hallel. Do they say Kaddish Shaleim after Hallel?

Yishai
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  • Can you add any info that assumes that saying Kaddish Shaleim is specifically dependent on Chazarat Hashat"z? I'm inferring that you may be getting this from a reverse assumption. I.e. if they began with a minyan and they didn't have one for Kaddish, they should still recite the Kaddish. I don't know if one can deduce the reverse from this reasoning. – DanF Jun 27 '17 at 16:09
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    Seemingly Hallel (or even Ashrei/uVa leTziyon) is no worse than Shir HaShirim (or any other verses), so the only question is about reciting Titkabal, but certainly the rest of kaddish could be said – Double AA Jun 27 '17 at 16:10
  • @DanF, I don't have a source other than the content of the Kaddish - תתקבל וכו' and the fact that it is only said after an Amida. – Yishai Jun 27 '17 at 16:12
  • An interesting test case could be that of Pores Al HaShema. Also worth looking at the phenomenon of a minyan where a minority already davened (which may be functionally equivalent to PAHS anyway). Does that get a Titkabal? – Double AA Jun 27 '17 at 16:16
  • @DanF consider https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/69829/759 – Double AA Jun 27 '17 at 16:22
  • I would imagine that if there was a minyan for selichot on a fast day you could say תתקבל, since it shouldn't be any worse than the Yamim Noraim. Not sure if the same applies to Tachanun when there's no selichot. – Heshy Jun 27 '17 at 16:25
  • Clarify - Kaddish Shaleim happens to occur after Hallel. Are you concerned just with saying the Kaddish itself or is your concern about including Titkabel which specifically makes it a Kaddish Shalem? You might want to clarify this in your question, esp. given the various comments and links you've been seeing. – DanF Jun 27 '17 at 17:11
  • @DanF, Kaddish Shalem. That is all my question ever asks about. I realize that some comments say that you could say a Kaddish without it, but it seems speculative that you would in this case. An answer could say No, but you say Chatzi Kaddish (or some variant), it could say no and you don't say any other Kaddish even though you technically could but because of some other side reason you don't anyway, or it could say yes. – Yishai Jun 27 '17 at 17:18

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