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When the ba'al tefilah mistakenly believes there to be a valid minyan while you know there isn't (counting someone who is not yet converted or underage, for instance) and they have already started reciting kaddish, may one respond Amen Yehei Shmeh Rabba?

Isaac Kotlicky
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  • Not adding this into the question, but other possible (and vastly different) situations would be where their standards for counting a minyan may differ from normative halacha (including someone of questionable Jewish heritage, for instance...) – Isaac Kotlicky Feb 02 '17 at 19:35
  • The exact parameters of the case could matter as some Rishonim allowed counting a child and/or a woman as the tenth if there are 9 other men. This could create grounds for leniency. – Double AA Feb 02 '17 at 19:37
  • related http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/35324/759 http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/10938/759 http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/13540/759 – Double AA Feb 02 '17 at 19:39
  • @DoubleAA your comment is certainly a good starting point for an answer. I avoided specificity in this question because it could quickly become too situational/CYLOR. – Isaac Kotlicky Feb 02 '17 at 19:43
  • @IsaacKotlicky I'm trying to gain some clarity on the scenario. You said the "Ba'al tefillah believes..." is he saying Kaddish Shalem or Haldf Kaddish? If that's so, there is a halacha that if there was a minyan prior, then he can say Kaddish even if he knows there's no minyan, now. (I.e. minyan there for Shemoneh Esrah, no minyan after.) If you're talking about Mourner's Kaddish, shouldn't the mourner be responsible for verifying that there is a minyan? – DanF Feb 02 '17 at 20:44
  • I recall having asked a question related to this on M.Y. it dealt with the scenario where they read Torah assuming they had a minyan and when they called the person for an aliyah, they discovered that he wasn't Jewish. I'll see if I can locate this, later. But, if you find it, I think that scenario would be similar to yours. – DanF Feb 02 '17 at 22:36
  • @DanF I thought it was clear from the question that there was never a minyan, as the ba'al tefilah was counting incorrectly. – Isaac Kotlicky Feb 03 '17 at 15:18
  • @DanF Here's the link to your question: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/64668/torah-was-taken-out-for-reading-when-you-discover-you-had-no-minyan-what-now –  Apr 24 '17 at 04:07
  • @IsaacKotlicky In DanF's case as well there was never a minyan, as #10 was a goy. –  Apr 24 '17 at 04:08
  • @Ploni I was referring to his previous comment regarding the "belief" of the BT. – Isaac Kotlicky Apr 24 '17 at 17:57
  • The approved answer to @DanF 's answer is fascinating, and highlights some of the differences between the two circumstances mentioned. For instance, it is widely accepted that if there are not fully 10 men ready to reply to a kaddish post SA (either some left or some are still davening) one may still proceed with the davar shebikdushah, since the critical point is prior to the recitation of kaddish, whereas by a sefer torah it is at the point of the keriah itself... – Isaac Kotlicky Apr 24 '17 at 18:04

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