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Ordinarily, Jewish women would be expected not to dance or sing with men looking on, or even present in the same area. However, at every Jewish wedding I have been to, there has been at least one male photographer/videographer on the women's side during the dancing, and the women go on presumably exactly as they would (singing, dancing) had there been no males there.

Is this allowed? (Does it depend at all on whether the photographer is Jewish?) Why or why not? If not, how could one reconcile the mitzvah of hachnosas kallah on that day with the needs of modesty?

SAH
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  • How is this different from a male doctor? – Double AA Dec 15 '16 at 00:12
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    @DoubleAA For one thing, which you probably could guess, health is halachically a lot more important than videography – SAH Dec 15 '16 at 00:13
  • Related: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/8721/1516 – SAH Dec 15 '16 at 00:23
  • It is the mitzvah of hachnosas kala (I thought it is done by being there (no dancing nessisery) showing her that her groom is important)? It looks more like simchas kala? – hazoriz Dec 15 '16 at 00:31
  • @hazoriz Yes, that makes sense to me. However, it seems like the minhag today is that we "bring her in" by dancing. – SAH Dec 15 '16 at 00:43
  • @SAH is there not an idea to make her happy (simchas choson VKALLAH) separate from bringing her in? – hazoriz Dec 15 '16 at 00:45
  • @hazoriz Well, that is what the reception is called, but I don't know if it's an actual mitzvah. Do you? – SAH Dec 15 '16 at 00:47
  • @SAH if you are so sceptical about mitzvot how can you claim in you question "mitzvah of hachnosas kallah " – hazoriz Dec 15 '16 at 00:49
  • @SAH see the tur quoted here http://ph.yhb.org.il/09-04-11/ – hazoriz Dec 15 '16 at 00:51
  • http://beinenu.com/sites/default/files/alonim/25_75.pdf – hazoriz Dec 15 '16 at 00:54
  • @hazoriz Sorry, I didn't mean to sound sarcastic. My question was completely sincere. Is simchas kallah an actual mitzvah? I, too, would like to know. Hachnosas kallah I know is an actual mitzvah because it is listed in the second set of "eylu d'varim" by Birkas HaShachar. – SAH Dec 15 '16 at 00:54
  • @SAH from the last link I sent you it seems that it is a mitzvah (maybe only if you eat there, maybe the goal is for the groom to be happy). ברמב"ם (הל' אבל יד,א) כ' במ"ע מדבריהם "לשמח הכלה והחתן", ובטוש"ע אה"ע (סי' סה) "מצוה לשמח חתן וכלה ולרקד בפניה ולומר שהיא נאה וחסודה", – hazoriz Dec 15 '16 at 01:02
  • Rambam in english here http://chabad.org/1181895/ – hazoriz Dec 15 '16 at 01:03
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    Ordinarily, Jewish women would be expected not to dance or sing with men looking on, or even present in the same area Source? – mevaqesh Dec 15 '16 at 04:56
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    Is this allowed?... If not, how could one reconcile the mitzvah of hachnosas kallah on that day with the needs of modesty? One could easily do so by not having male photographers observing the women. Seems simple enough. – mevaqesh Dec 15 '16 at 05:01
  • @mevaqesh Yeah, I agree. I guess then my questions are: 1) Why do people have the male photographers on the women's side? Is there any possible leniency for this? and 2) What should one do if that is already the situation? – SAH Dec 15 '16 at 05:33
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    ...Maybe someone else can help me get @mevaqesh the "canonical" source for these rules about women's modesty, which I'm pretty sure I am not making up – SAH Dec 15 '16 at 05:35
  • @DoubleAA it's somewhere between a doctor and a lifeguard :) – ertert3terte Dec 15 '16 at 07:20
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    I want to advise you to separate the question in two sub questions 1) the photographer, is he allowed to watch the women dancing and singing? 2) If the answer is no. Can women continue to dance and sing in front of him. We can add is there a problem of mixity when a specific person doesn't respect the mechitsa. Mixity is equally a problem with Jewish and non Jewish people? – kouty Dec 16 '16 at 12:55
  • Given that there are living people who had perfectly Orthodox weddings where there was separate dancing with no mechitza (ie the men and women didn't dance with each other but had seperate circles on the same dance floor with nothing but air between them), presumably merely being within view of men doesn't preclude dancing. So the notion that women not dance where men will see them is new. Perhaps men actively looking is different, and one will claim men in days gone by didn't look. I am skeptical that men didn't look then. – Ze'ev misses Monica Jun 23 '21 at 19:14

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Rav Yitzchak Abadi in his Ohr Yitzchak Chelek 2:Inyanim Shonim Siman 10 forbids a man to video the womens side and would hold that two photographers are necessary, one male and one female for their sides of the mechitzah. He says he doesnt understand why people are silent about this prohibition. He also preempts the defense that the photographer is busy with their job so they aren't paying attention. He counters that on the contrary a photographer has pay more attention to get the best shot and this requires more looking then usual.

sam
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  • He counters that on the contrary a photographer has pay more attention to get the best shot and this requires more looking then usual. So a doctor (dealing with non0life threatening conditions), for example, would be even more unable to claim that he is distracted, since he is presumably paying even more attention, right? – mevaqesh Dec 20 '16 at 18:36
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    did I write the teshuva or Rav Abadi,why dont you ask him – sam Dec 20 '16 at 18:40
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    I disagree with your implication that there is no value in noting weaknesses with a promoted position on Mi Yodeya, regardless of whether those positions themselves those of a particular user on the site. – mevaqesh Dec 20 '16 at 18:42
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    It is a very interesting topic. If you can explain a little more I am very interested. The photography is an art and needs an awareness to beauty. Medicine needs awareness to illness. It is perhaps a chiluk between the two. – kouty Dec 20 '16 at 21:39
  • @mevaqesh a distinction that can be made between a doctor and a photographer is that a photographer is specifically looking to see if the subjects look good in the shot and that may make him come to bad thoughts ,a doctor on the other hand is busy looking for whats wrong with the person and his buisness is on the line its a more serious situation ,whereas a photographer no one will think he is doing anything wrong looking at women for over 2 hours since thats his job,I dk how you cant see this basic diff – sam Feb 09 '17 at 15:13