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Is one obligated to hold the object he or she is toveling? That is, if they put the object in a bag, let's say, and dunk the bag such that the object is entirely immersed, is that a kosher tevilah? Or if they threw it at the bottom of the mikvah and then pulled it out, is that a kosher tevilah?

In other words, is the obligation to tovel that a person should dunk the object or that the object should be dunked?

DonielF
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  • Throwing it in and pulling it out sounds quite active to me! – Double AA Nov 14 '16 at 00:46
  • The only case I can think of that could possibly be construed as passive is if I buy a pot, leave it in a hole, it rains, it dries up, and I come back. – Double AA Nov 14 '16 at 00:51
  • related http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/60836/759 http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/51014/759 – Double AA Nov 14 '16 at 02:35
  • @DoubleAA Is that better? I was trying to rephrase the immediately preceding clause, but if you think it's that confusing I took it out. – DonielF Nov 14 '16 at 02:41
  • @DoubleAA That point of free fall in the first answer seems applicable. – DonielF Nov 14 '16 at 02:42
  • @DonielF please see if the change in title is OK, the word touching is less clear, after your comments I understand that you ask about an active participation. – kouty Nov 14 '16 at 10:04
  • @DonielF Afaik (no source, sorry) it is supposed to be done that way--that is, you are supposed to release the object for a split second so the water can touch the spot where your fingers were – SAH Nov 14 '16 at 12:01
  • @SAH Going off of that answer, it seems to be a machlokes Rema and Mechaber. I take it you're Sefardi? – DonielF Nov 14 '16 at 22:24
  • @kouty No, my point was very much on the touching. My question was exactly how I phrased it - do you need to be holding the object while it's being toveled? – DonielF Nov 14 '16 at 22:26
  • @DonielF you are asking for holding from which point of view? Action? – kouty Nov 15 '16 at 05:06
  • @DonielF l can understand a problem with holding as you discussed with SAH, but what holding can add if not the demonstration of an active doing? – kouty Nov 15 '16 at 05:45
  • @kouty See my above discussion with DoubleAA. Active can have many connotations, including throwing it into the mikvah, which does not have the person holding the object. – DonielF Nov 16 '16 at 00:20

2 Answers2

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Actually it is better if you don't hold the object, for if you hold the object too tight it may constitute a chatzizah. The Shulchan Aruch YO"D 120:2 states that you should hold it very loosely, or alternatively wetten your hands with mikva water before holding it. The Chasam Sofer explains that it means inserting your hand in mikva, and passing item to hand, without removing hand from Mikvah. Obviously, the best is if you just drop it in. But don't tovel within plastic bag, as that can cause issues. Just put basket or pot completely submerged in mikvah, with water floating above it, and just drop your cutlery in it.

lionscribe
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  • "As that can cause issues" - such as what? What about havin a pot instead of floating having it suspended from a rope or something and using a pulley system to lower it in with the item inside, ensure that the pot filled with water and the item is entirely submerged, and raise the pot out of the water? – DonielF Nov 17 '16 at 18:13
  • One issue with putting it in a pot or a bag before submerging, then there is risk that no water will get between pot and item. In addition there is risk that outside pot, will not be completely submerged, which can be a problem. The Shulchan Oruch and Poskim discuss toivling a pot within a pot, and the issues. Therefore, the simpler and better way, is to drop it into the pot or basketthat is already submerged. – lionscribe Nov 17 '16 at 18:19
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Mishna Niddah 5, 6:

פרק ה - משנה ו

גַּל שֶׁנִּתְלַשׁ וּבוֹ אַרְבָּעִים סְאָה, וְנָפַל עַל הָאָדָם וְעַל הַכֵּלִים, טְהוֹרִים. ‏

If a wave containing forty se'ah [of water] was detached [from the sea] and fell upon a man or upon vessels [that were unclean], they are now clean.

ברטנורא = לְחֻלִּין בִּלְבַד, דְּחֻלִּין לֹא בָעוּ כַוָּנָה. אֲבָל לְמַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי וְלִתְרוּמָה, לֹא טָהַר הַטּוֹבֵל עַד שֶׁיְּכַוֵּן:‏

Bartenura = For Chulin only, because Chulin don't need cavana , (the fact that they was immersed is good enough.) but for Maasser Sheni and Teruma, one who immerses is not clean until he has a special intent to be clean.

object should be dunked? --> Yes

For Tevila the only problems concerning action and intention are derabanan and are not relevant for tevila lachulin. See Mishna Chagiga 2, 6(1). For ykar hadin נתלש הגל is good. There is no passive than to receive a wave.

(1) פרק ב - משנה ו

הַטּוֹבֵל לְחֻלִּין וְהֻחְזַק לְחֻלִּין, אָסוּר לְמַעֲשֵׂר. טָבַל לְמַעֲשֵׂר וְהֻחְזַק לְמַעֲשֵׂר, אָסוּר לִתְרוּמָה. טָבַל לִתְרוּמָה, וְהֻחְזַק לִתְרוּמָה, אָסוּר לְקֹדֶשׁ. טָבַל לְקֹדֶשׁ וְהֻחְזַק לְקֹדֶשׁ, אָסוּר לְחַטָּאת. טָבַל לְחָמוּר, מֻתָּר לְקַל. טָבַל וְלֹא הֻחְזַק, כְּאִלּוּ לֹא טָבָל {י}:‏

This Mishna shows cavanot for Tevila for Maasser, Teruma, Kodesh, Chat'at. The necessary intent to immerse e. g. for kodesh in way to be considered able to deal with Kodesh is derabanan. But for Chulin those special stringencies don't exist.

kouty
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  • But this still shows nothing. If indeed the first Mishna only deals with biblical law, but rabbinic issues may be present, then all you have shown is that there is no biblical issue, which fails to teach us the actual halakha, which the OP asked for. This should thus be a comment; not an answer. – mevaqesh Nov 14 '16 at 20:06
  • These sources are about Tevilah for Tahara, whereas I'd guess the OP is discussing Tevilah for buying something from a non-Jew. The rules do not need to be the same. – Double AA Nov 14 '16 at 20:08
  • @Double AA see edit – kouty Nov 14 '16 at 20:11
  • @kouty See my comment to you on the question. I didn't ask about intent. I asked about the need to touch the object. – DonielF Nov 14 '16 at 22:27