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Chazal often talk about irrational numbers in their math discussions. For instance, Sukkah 7b-8a uses both √2=1.4 and π=3 in its discussion, and Eiruvin 76a-b uses the same numbers in an almost identical sugya. And the list goes on.

But can we actually rely on such sources? That is, halacha l'ma'aseh, can we assume that π=3 for the sake of halacha? For instance, in the aforementioned sugya in Sukkah, discussing a round sukkah. If I actually wanted to make a round sukkah, can I take a 7x7 tefach square, multiply the side by 1.4 to get the diagonal of length 9.8, then multiply by 3 to get the circumference length of 29.4, and that would be a kosher sukkah? Or do I have to get as close to 7π√2 as humanly possible?

DonielF
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    I remember learning about the yam shel shlomo in which the diameter and the circumference are mentioned with Pi equal to 3. Rashi goes through the calculation and shows that the shape is actually a cylinder resting on a square base so that the values do not round pi to 3. – sabbahillel Sep 09 '16 at 20:47
  • It is Gemara in eruvin – kouty Sep 10 '16 at 19:14
  • @sabbahillel π(r^2)h + lwh = 3(5^2)(2) + 10(10)(3) = 150 + 300 = 450 = (311)(150). The numbers only work if you round π to 3. – DonielF Sep 11 '16 at 01:05
  • If I recall correctly, the numbers are because the diameter is not actually the full side of the square. This would mean that the edge of the cylinder made is inset a little either because of construction or the thickness of the metal of which it is constructed. I think that Rashi calculates it using geometrical calculations and fractions. Using the exact value of pi, the actual diameter would be 9.54929 amos to get a 30 amah circumference. Also, it is possible that the calculation was accurate and the measurement of the actual side was rounded up to 10 or circumference rounded down from 31 – sabbahillel Sep 11 '16 at 01:44
  • Another point is based on the description in Melachim Alef 7:24 and 7:26, the rim was flared. There are those who say that the cylindrical portion was flared and the rope around the circumference had to be under the flared portion of the brim. – sabbahillel Sep 11 '16 at 02:06
  • @DonielF Rashi on I Melachim 7:24 and 7:26 sayst that the calculation was based on the volume that the yam held (2,000 bat liquid and 3,000 bat dry) rather than the calculation by pi. Also given the square part of the (lower) section of the yam, the estimate for the upper (ciylindrical) part used the ratio given in Eruvin 14b (ArtScroll 14b1 note 8). This rounds Pi to 3 for ease of calculation rather than the exact amount because underestimating the amount of water in a (kosher) mikvah would not hurt. – sabbahillel Sep 11 '16 at 02:14
  • Somewhat related - http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/81752/5275 – DanF Apr 10 '17 at 18:32
  • You ask and accept your own answer? Boooo. 2. I don't understand your reasoning before I start criticizing both the Q and the A. 3. Rabbis had no idea of Pi only mentioned that the circ. is 3 times longer than the diameter. 4. Please define "rely". I think the Q is not about relying but about their "knowledge".
  • – Al Berko Apr 03 '19 at 11:37
  • @Al 1. That's old news; you can accept your own answer after two days of posting it, but you don't get any rep for it. 2. What would you like me to clarify? 3-4. π is the exact value of the ratio of the circumference to the diameter, and 3 is the value Chazal assigned to it. Whether they knew of its imprecision or not is irrelevant to this question; since we know it's off, are you allowed to rely on this approximation anyway? By "rely" I mean "Halacha X is based on assuming π=3; does that mean we still hold of Halacha X as written, or does it change based on advances in mathematics?" – DonielF Apr 03 '19 at 13:41
  • Please show me a Halacha that actually USES Pi and calculations at all. I assumed there's no idea of a mathematical constant in Halacha. – Al Berko Apr 03 '19 at 14:13
  • @AlBerko Any context in which π is referenced - a circular koreh for a Mavoi (Eruvin 13b), a circular window between courtyards for Eiruvei Chatzeiros (Eruvin 76a), a circular Sukkah (Sukkah 7b-8a), etc. Likewise √2 has a few applications as well. So the question is: The Gemara concludes, for instance, that a circular Sukkah, according to Rebbe's opinion that a Sukkah must be 4x4 amos, must have a circumference of 16.8. Since we know π and √2 are more precise, should we build such a Sukkah to be 4π√2 in circumference instead? – DonielF Apr 03 '19 at 14:19
  • Sorry, where do you see a reference to Pi? Where does it say - there's a magic and constant number that represents the ratio etc? It says (https://www.sefaria.org.il/Eruvin.76a.17?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) if the width is so and so and if the circ. is so and so. I don't see Pies here. – Al Berko Apr 03 '19 at 14:34
  • @Al The magic constant number that represents the ratio, according to the Mishnah, is 3: כל שיש בהקפו שלשה טפחים יש בו רוחב טפח. We know that this magic number is actually π, slightly larger than 3. Therefore, I ask: can one rely on Chazal's statement that the circumference is actually three times the diameter, rather than the actual measurement of π times the diameter? I didn't think it was such a complicated question. – DonielF Apr 03 '19 at 14:38
  • That gemara in sukkah uses the phrase לא דק over and over again. לא דק has the מספר קטן of 3 1 4 1... a much closer approximation of π – Daniel Jun 28 '19 at 03:07
  • @Daniel Interesting; I’d never heard that before. However, I was taught that מספר קטן rolls over at 10, not 9, which would give לא דק a מספר קטן of 2 1 4 9; was I taught incorrectly? – DonielF Jun 28 '19 at 12:26
  • @DonielF Everything I can find online says mispar katan just truncates the zeros on the numbers. So 30 -> 3 and 100 -> 1 – Daniel Jun 28 '19 at 14:34