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We dont rely on eid echad neeman beisurin in our local stores, so why do we rely on the owners of most schools and camps that everything is kosher?

msh210
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SE is Evil - Support Monica
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    Many schools in my area have food service providers who come in with hashgachot, and there is a mashgiach present. – rosends Feb 18 '16 at 21:55
  • highly related http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/11957/759 – Double AA Feb 18 '16 at 21:58
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    it seems strange that one would trust an institution to teach their children but not to feed them – Dude Feb 18 '16 at 22:59
  • As an aside, when I was in Yeshiva, they were remaking their kitchen and the Yeshiva had consultations with members from different local kashrus agencies to ensure that everything was being run properly. This is besides for the fact that members of the kashrus organization were regularly in the Yeshiva (to learn/daven) and had easy access to see the workings of the kitchen. – Salmononius2 Feb 19 '16 at 03:57
  • See my answer. But, IMO, I think you are making a wrong general assumption. It would help if you can add info to support your claim. As there is always the option of bringing your own food to yeshiva, I can't see why a yehiva would need to publicize their hechsher, though I am aware that's not directly your question. – DanF Feb 19 '16 at 14:34
  • @DanF I worked in the kitchen in a camp that was regarded a "Yeshivish" and no one was watching the kitchen at all! On the new york state kashrut form they wrote the name of someone who works for one of the national kashrus orginizations who was also related to the management of the camp. In my seven year there...saw him once..had no clue about anything. And there were MANY MAJOR kashrus issues in that camp. plus i have heard from friends who worked in other camps/yeshivos about the lack of legitimate reliable supervision (equal to what we expect from stores) in those places. – SE is Evil - Support Monica Feb 26 '16 at 11:27
  • Just because the camp says that they have a "Mashgiach Temidi" doesnt mean hes qualified. He could be awell meaning yeshiva bachur who thinks that pareve means that it can be used both with milk and with meat (True Story!!!) – SE is Evil - Support Monica Feb 26 '16 at 11:30
  • @SamuelManuel Yes, I have, sadly, heard the opposite side of the story regarding camps. Too bad this happens. At the same time, though, I am more disturbed about cleanliness and health issues than kashrut. I have seen many places - caterers, yeshiva kitchens, restaurants, school kitchens, etc, with old food, dirt and creatures crawling around - even a health dept. notice. Yet they have a mashgiach temidi and a reliable hechsher. But no one seems to mind that customers may get sick. I don't understand the priorities, here. I'd rather have a school kid eat his own healthy "unreliable" home food! – DanF Feb 26 '16 at 14:27
  • Returning to this question about a year later - My answer may be irrelevant to your question, indeed. But, again, your question body and title conflict. The question title asserts that yeshivot and camps don't have kashrut supervision at all. The body, seems to state that, indeed they are supervised, but how can that be reliable by using just one witness? My answer, refutes just the question title. But, I think you need to clarify which issue you want answered. – DanF Mar 29 '18 at 17:24

2 Answers2

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Yeshiva (based on my kid's elementary and high school):

The elementary school had an optional lunch program. The yeshiva publicized exactly who the caterer was - a well established neighborhood caterer supervised by two Va'adei Harabanim. (I won't delve into the politics of why you need more than one, here.) If that wasn't sufficient for parents, the yeshiva dictated which supervisions of food kids were allowed to bring from home. No, it was not fool proof, as no one was checking a mommy-made bologna and ketchup on white bread sandwich. But, then, again, students with their own lunches had to eat in the classroom rather than the lunch room to prevent possible kashrut problems.

So, other than the lunch program, there was no way to enforce a specific kashrut policy other than to recommend guidelines.

Summer Camps

Between my nieces, nephews and my own kids attending 3 NY State summer camps over the past approx. 30 years, each camp had a mashgiach temidi, from what I recall. While the camps did not publish where they got their food from, they had no problem revealing this info to anyone who asked.

I worked as an assistant head waiter in Camp Massad in the 80's. When I was there, there was no mashgiach on premises, but, someone came by once a week to inspect, and we did not know when he would come. Additionally, Rabbi Eliach (Sr. - not his son Yotav) was one of a few rabbis who would almost constantly check things in the kitchen (and sometimes tell the chef how to cook things!)

DanF
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  • I'm not quite sure I understand what this answer has to do with the question? It seems like your example for summer camps just confirms the existence of the phenomenon that is being asked about and your example about schools seems completely unrelated to the question since the caterer was supervised by reliable certification agencies. – Daniel Feb 19 '16 at 16:14
  • @Daniel While not explicitly stating so, I'm basically contradicting the premise in the question that we automatically rely on them. We don't. We rely oin the mashgiach temidi in the camp, or the caterer's va'ad. There is no direct reliance on either the yeshiva or the camp. Thus, the title of th equestion makes a false assumption, IMO. Neither has any kashrut hashgacha for anyone to rely on or even question to begin with, and neither claims that they do. – DanF Feb 22 '16 at 01:40
  • Maybe not in that particular yeshiva or camp... – Daniel Feb 22 '16 at 01:41
  • @Daniel OK, I haven't cheked every last upstate NY / PA summer camp and every yeshiva. But, during about 30 years, with about 10 camps and 10 yeshivot all well-attended, I think there is a good consistency. You're dealing with a few thousand campers / students and families, here. You do the math. – DanF Feb 22 '16 at 01:43
  • I do think that EVERY yeshiva should do what your yeshiva did. But most yeshivos in the tristate area dont. – SE is Evil - Support Monica Feb 26 '16 at 11:32
  • @SamuelManuel I assume that "tri state" means NYC metro? (There are several "tri-state" areas in U.S.) There are also a variety of Conservative yeshivot as well as loads of Hareidi ones. I'm unfamiliar with what goes on in these spectrums. However, I can vouch, at least for most of the "well-known" tri-state high schools such as MTA, YCQ, don't even have in house lunch programs, anyway. Students either bring food from home or visit local stores. AFAIK, MOST elementary schools actually ARE following the policy that I have seen. See answer, below. I still think your assumption is wrong, though. – DanF Feb 26 '16 at 14:15
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@DanF makes a valid point about this being "a wrong general assumption". I cannot speak for all camps, but I've been working for a chassidic boys' camp for a number of years: they have a hashgacha from an outside agency that certifies their kitchen. While I don't work for the affiliated school all year, I do know that their kitchen (in Boro Park) is certified as well.

Wandering Jew
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  • A high school in Rochester, NY has a VERY strict kashrut policy regarding their students. Not only do they have an in-house lunch program, but I understand that for the few students that bring their own lunch (most students dorm, so this is really very few), they can only bring packaged store products so that rebbes or the principal can verify the hechsher. Additionally, students are forbidden from eating in any local students' friends' home at any time. The school, essentially, does not trust any parents' home kashrut as they have no way of knowing or controlling what happens at home. – DanF Feb 26 '16 at 14:21