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The time of kriat shma is learned basically from the pasuk "בשכבך ובקומך", meaning the time people sleep and the time people wake up.

2000 years ago people acted according to the daylight. Nowadays we have electricity. The time should be adjusted to the normal working hours. Let's say in the winter, people don't start to sleep at 5 pm, nor start to wake up at 7:00 am.

The opposite question is in the summer. If i am living in the UK or canada, why i am permitted just to say shma at 10 pm, people start to go sleep earlier. Or why can i say shma already at 4 am ?

msh210
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David Michael Gang
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    Part of the answer might be that certain things you are asking are not derived from the words you quote but from the idea of "evening and morning" which are dependent on the sun rise/set cycle and not the sleep cycle. If everything were based just on rising and lying down, then could someone who works overnights claim that the sabbath should start on a different schedule? – rosends Feb 10 '16 at 11:51
  • i understood from the mishnah that it is more connected to the time people wake up or go sleeping. Please look here: https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A0%D7%94_%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%90_%D7%92 – David Michael Gang Feb 10 '16 at 12:21
  • The mishna does discuss waking and sleeping, but operates under certain standards (such as not accounting for people who work third shift). The day/night cycle as determined by the sun is a determinant. – rosends Feb 10 '16 at 12:44
  • so why can't i read kriat shma of the morning the whole day? why does rabbi yehoshua connect in mishna beis his time to the fact that the son of the kings wake up till the third hour of the day? – David Michael Gang Feb 10 '16 at 12:47
  • because the morning has to end sometime and if it is connected textually to rising and not connected to the fact that some people don't get out of bed until 3pm. – rosends Feb 10 '16 at 13:50
  • I see that we disagree(which is good), but please be aware that the question does not regard people waking up at 3.pm but what nowadays normally people do. We have halchically two other midos for the morning. chazot like in tamid, and ashmoret, which is 4 hours (third of the day or night). the shiur of 3 hours is because of the fact when people wake up. Is there another place where the 3 hours shiur is used? – David Michael Gang Feb 10 '16 at 14:32
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    The source is a derasha. If we had the Sanhedrin, we would probably not have made that derasha. Upon reestablishment of the Sanhedrin, we can change the derashao keep it up with the times. Until then, we are mostly stuck. (BTW IIRC some hold that the time is only rabbinic; accordingly the verse is a mere asmachta, and the time was never actually dependnt on it. If so, qushya meiqara leita.) – mevaqesh Feb 10 '16 at 14:49
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    @DavidMichaelGang in relation to human davening or just as a measure of a part of the day? If, as per http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/30485/hashem-studies-torah the first three hours are when hashem is recreating the world, prayer might be appropriate for that window. – rosends Feb 10 '16 at 15:09
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    The boundaries for normative behavior haven't changed - we don't look at the average waking individual, but on what melachim do - people with no external requirements upon them ("masters of their own time," if you will). The closest analog in the modern era are probably retired individuals, who tend to sleep till mid morning and retire early evening. But take this with a krovetz of melach – Isaac Kotlicky Feb 10 '16 at 15:58
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    In Shu"t Mishkenos Yaakov #79 he brings up that issue. See http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=84 – Meir Zirkind Feb 10 '16 at 20:27
  • the times for reciting the Shema are from the Torah. Defining when those times are in terms we can understand are what the gemeroh is discussing. So when the gemera says that the latest time is when kings wake up the discussion is not when should the time of shema be established but how to define that time. – Dude Mar 03 '16 at 05:27
  • @Dude Not everyone agrees to that. – Double AA Mar 03 '16 at 22:19
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    I've always wondered about that Gemara (very first sugya in Brachos). If the time that the latest sleepers wake up defines the latest Shema, then we should be able to say Shema until about 3PM, for all of those lazy teens. – DonielF Jun 29 '16 at 01:32

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