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It seems there is precedent to allow for netilas yadayim when you don't have a cup, by turning the sink on and off for each rivi'is per hand. By employing this method you satisfy the requirement of koach gavra.

What about a situation where the sinks are all automatic? Would waving your hand to turn on the sink still be considered koach gavra?

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Y. Isseroff
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  • I don't see why not – Gabriel12 Jan 04 '16 at 19:37
  • Seems it would be no better than ko'ach kocho... – Loewian Jan 05 '16 at 06:22
  • Related: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/52546/waving-at-a-security-camera-on-shabbat – Loewian Jan 05 '16 at 06:29
  • also: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/10532/why-is-it-ok-to-use-tap-water-toilets-on-shabbos-considering-the-source-of-the/15868#15868 – Loewian Jan 06 '16 at 02:44
  • https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pagefeed/hebrewbooks_org_48004_114.pdf&q=%D7%9B%D7%97%20%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%9F%20%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A3&ved=0ahUKEwi9gMaUqrbKAhVBpB4KHY6CBdQQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNF_NADh2qSVGMMIl_S-aoVubapHiw&sig2=OELTv3oj8uLtn6jjla1BgQ – sam Jan 19 '16 at 16:50
  • Koach gavra with a gun is not already discussed in Halacha? – kouty Jul 22 '16 at 12:20
  • Somehow I feel like it wouldn't be...but I have no proof. – ezra Jul 27 '16 at 22:02

2 Answers2

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The Avnei Yashfei 30:5 writes that using a faucet does not count as using a kli since it is connected(to pipes) to the the house and has a din of being attached and cannot be considered a kli(utensil). So even turning the faucet on and off with your hands wouldn't help. Rav Eliyashiv holds this way as well and is also quoted in Ashrei Ha'Ish(Chelek 1:pg.203 the footnote uses this Avnei Yashfei as the source).

Avnei Yashfei Text:

enter image description here

sam
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    Regarding R' Elyashiv, there appears to be a contrary claim in this answer: This is subject to a dispute among modern day poskim if the faucet has a din of a kli. Rav Elyashiv and Rav Ovadia Yosef both held it did have a din of a kli; thus, if no cup is available, one can turn the faucet on and off twice (or three if Sephardic) on each hand, since turning on the faucet is considered "koach gavra". – Fred Jan 13 '16 at 05:04
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    That claim has no source for Rav Eliyashiv,,my answer provides 2 – sam Jan 13 '16 at 05:07
  • That answer has no sources,and was accepted yet the claim of Rav Eliyashiv is incorrect, I will check Yabia Omer or the Yalkut... – sam Jan 13 '16 at 05:09
  • Well, I upvoted your answer because it sources R' Feinhandler quoting R' Walkin. But I still don't see a verifiable citation for R' Elyashiv (though I'm not doubting it exists somewhere in Ashrei HaIsh) - unless I missed something when I skimmed your answer. Or is "gaon echad" Rav Elyashiv? – Fred Jan 13 '16 at 05:14
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    Yes Gaon Echad is always Rav Eliyashiv in Avnei Yashfei per his hakdama – sam Jan 13 '16 at 05:16
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    I added the Ashrei Haish source,just looked it up. – sam Jan 13 '16 at 05:19
  • Correction to my (deleted) comment above: Actually, the phrase referring to R' Elyashiv in V'zos HaB'racha is "echad mig'dolei hador". (The sefer confirms this in the hakdama). – Fred Jan 13 '16 at 05:30
  • This question was asked according to opinions that allow using standard sinks for washing. See http://meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/2179/i-know-a-and-based-on-a-im-asking-b – Scimonster Jul 22 '16 at 10:49
  • @sam Rav Webber from Neve Yaakov, a close Talmid of R Elyashiv quotes in the name of R Elyashiv – Shoel U'Meishiv Aug 22 '18 at 17:25
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    @Shoel u'meishiv what are you referring to? – sam Aug 22 '18 at 19:11
  • @sam https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/38936/where-there-isnt-a-vessel-available-for-washing-with-is-there-another-option-av/38941#comment312290_38941 – Fred Feb 25 '20 at 04:55
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Regarding human/animal power

Similar to @Loewian by a regular valve the human is actually relieving the pressure that is in the pipe (so the first water that comes out is regarded as human propelled ( source))
But by an electrical valve the human is not reliving the pressure physically but it is only being caused by him

(There might be an opinion that if a robot washed your hands it is OK, then it will be OK in our case (b"n I will look for it))

edit
I might be wrong since the human is the one activating the valve, (by the monkey the monkey is pouring not because of the human but by himself)

Edit I think I am wrong

There is a biblical requirement to shecht an animal to eat it, there it is clear that you need the shochet's propulsion,
but if the shochet propelled something (a stone) and that thing (the stone) propelled the knife is not written clearly if it is sufficient
but to the simla chadosho 3.2 decided that it is not sufficient since it might not be considered the shochet's power

In our case the washing of the hands is a Rabbinic decree so it is very possible that the koach kocho is considered his koach (that propelling something by propelling another thing is considered his propelling)

So causing the valve to open by triggering the electric motion sensor which then triggers the electric valve might still be considered human propelled (I do not see a reason by extra steps in process sill be different then just 2 (ie hitting the valve by throwing a rock on it)

Would waving your hand to turn on the sink still be considered koach gavra?
it might so if no choice you should do it, but still cover your hands

hazoriz
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