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Who sold Yosef to the Yishmaelim, is it the brothers or the Midyanim?

And who sold him to Potifar in Egypt? The Yishmaelim or the Midyanim?

(Medanim also appear in the text, but that might be the Midyanim.)

Do these texts show that the Torah is indeed a composite document from multiple sources?

Bereishit 37:27-28:

כז לְכוּ וְנִמְכְּרֶנּוּ לַיִּשְׁמְעֵאלִים, וְיָדֵנוּ אַל-תְּהִי-בוֹ, כִּי-אָחִינוּ בְשָׂרֵנוּ, הוּא; וַיִּשְׁמְעוּ, אֶחָיו. 27 Come, and let us sell him to the Ishmaelites, and let not our hand be upon him; for he is our brother, our flesh.' And his brethren hearkened unto him. כח וַיַּעַבְרוּ אֲנָשִׁים מִדְיָנִים סֹחֲרִים, וַיִּמְשְׁכוּ וַיַּעֲלוּ אֶת-יוֹסֵף מִן-הַבּוֹר, וַיִּמְכְּרוּ אֶת-יוֹסֵף לַיִּשְׁמְעֵאלִים, בְּעֶשְׂרִים כָּסֶף; וַיָּבִיאוּ אֶת-יוֹסֵף, מִצְרָיְמָה. 28 And there passed by Midianites, merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmaelites for twenty shekels of silver. And they brought Joseph into Egypt.

From: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0137.htm

Bereishit 37:36:

לו וְהַמְּדָנִים--מָכְרוּ אֹתוֹ, אֶל-מִצְרָיִם: לְפוֹטִיפַר סְרִיס פַּרְעֹה, שַׂר הַטַּבָּחִים. {פ} 36 And the Midianites sold him into Egypt unto Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh's, the captain of the guard. {P}

From: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0137.htm

Bereishit 39:1:

א וְיוֹסֵף, הוּרַד מִצְרָיְמָה; וַיִּקְנֵהוּ פּוֹטִיפַר סְרִיס פַּרְעֹה שַׂר הַטַּבָּחִים, אִישׁ מִצְרִי, מִיַּד הַיִּשְׁמְעֵאלִים, אֲשֶׁר הוֹרִדֻהוּ שָׁמָּה. 1 And Joseph was brought down to Egypt; and Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh's, the captain of the guard, an Egyptian, bought him of the hand of the Ishmaelites, that had brought him down thither.

From: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0139.htm

msh210
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Elie Steinbock
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    For "who sold to the Yishmaelim?", see http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/12322/who-sold-yosef-and-who-knew?rq=1. – Monica Cellio Dec 02 '15 at 18:26
  • Please see http://judaism.stackexchange.com/tags/torah-study/info – msh210 Dec 02 '15 at 20:22
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    "Who sold...?" is a good question (the text is confusing). But "Do these texts show that the Torah is indeed a composite document from multiple sources?" is worded assuming an answer antithetical to Torah. I mean, you could as well have asked "Do these texts show that [fill in any of the Torah-true explanation from the answers, below]?". Usually, questions that assume a certain answer are poor, and those that assume an answer antithetical to Torah are especially so. −1. – msh210 Dec 02 '15 at 20:31
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    How can trying to understand the Torah be antithetical to Torah? – Elie Steinbock Dec 02 '15 at 20:47
  • @msh210 I don't see any such assumption in the question. They want to know if it shows that or not. Answer: Orthodox Judaism says no. Great! – Double AA Dec 02 '15 at 20:54
  • @DoubleAA: "Joe ate a sandwich and drank some soda. I saw it with my own eyes. Does that show that Joe indeed eats non-kosher?" Doesn't that imply to you that I'm assuming Joe eats non-kosher and seeking approbation of the same, rather than that I'm asking honestly for an explanation for Joe's actions? It does to me. See also the Meta post I linked to in my previous comment here. – msh210 Dec 02 '15 at 22:02
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    @EliezerSteinbock, re your comment: I didn't say that trying to understand Torah can be antithetical to Torah. Please reread what I wrote, viz that one answer to "Do these texts show that the Torah is indeed a composite document from multiple sources?" is antithetical to Torah. – msh210 Dec 02 '15 at 22:06
  • "worded assuming an answer antithetical to Torah", again... How can a question trying to understand the Torah be antithetical to it? – Elie Steinbock Dec 03 '15 at 23:18
  • And yes, the second question was to make emphasise the point that these texts make a strong argument for multiple sources and I'd like to hear counter arguments – Elie Steinbock Dec 03 '15 at 23:18

2 Answers2

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If you simply read the "pshat" as recorded, it seems to work quite nicely (partly taken from Rav Menachem Leibtag).

The brothers see Yishmaelim and therefore decide to sell Yosef.

Before they get to it, Midyanim come and take him out of the bor (i.e. the pit) and sell him to the Yishmaelim (to bring to Egypt).

Since the Midyanim, in effect, did the selling (to Egypt), they are said to have done as such.

But, who actually handed him over to the house of Potifar? The Yishmaelim did.

Lee
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andrewmh20
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    +1 This explains on a Pshat level too why Reuven went back to the Bor and didn't find Yosef: Reuven didn't know he was sold! The brothers weren't lying when they said האחד איננו. They didn't know what happened to him. It also adds new meaning to אֱלֹהִים חֲשָׁבָהּ לְטֹבָה when you see how God's hand was at play here. – Double AA Dec 02 '15 at 18:27
  • @DoubleAA and also why they didn't fulfil the original plan of telling yaakov that he was eaten ---if yosef came back they'd be caught lying! – andrewmh20 Dec 02 '15 at 18:29
  • Here't the Liebtag link: http://www.tanach.org/breishit/vayesh/vayeshs1.htm – Elie Steinbock Dec 02 '15 at 18:35
  • Re: "if yosef came back they'd be caught lying!", see http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/65871/5275 – DanF Dec 02 '15 at 19:04
  • Rav Hirsch says the same thing. – sabbahillel Dec 02 '15 at 19:34
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    I think Rashbam was the first to say this. – Alex Dec 23 '19 at 01:14
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Yosef's brothers pulled him up from the ditch and sold him to the Yishme'elim who sold him to the Midyanim who sold him to the Medanim who sold him to Potiphar (Sifte'i Hakhamim).

To answer the second question: no (see above).

Lee
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