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I would think that after the great amount of suffering the Jews had to suffer in the 20th century a whole lot of them had to review how the deity they believed in could let what was happening to them happen.

I would be curious as to how Judaism in a general sense answer this question and specific how it was answered post WW2?

MTL
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Neil Meyer
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    "The question of evil" -- Mi Yodeya currently has about 35 ;-) ...there are also ~20 [tag:holocaust] questions, which you might want to browse. http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/38809/5323, http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/8855/5323, http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/9620/5323, and http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/28222/5323 appear to be particularly relevant to your question. – MTL Jul 24 '15 at 19:30
  • @Shokhet also http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/31427/759 – Double AA Jul 24 '15 at 19:31
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    I hope that I used the needed sensitivity what could be a touchy subject. – Neil Meyer Jul 24 '15 at 19:38
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    For more about the problem of evil and suffering in general, see: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/863 and http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/9170. See also: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/8861, http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/38527, http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/23067, and http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/36161. – Fred Jul 24 '15 at 19:42
  • As Dennis Prager points out, atheism has the problem of how any society can survive and how thare can be good in the world at all. – sabbahillel Jul 24 '15 at 20:43
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    @NeilMeyer seems fine to me. – mevaqesh Jul 24 '15 at 23:11
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    Isn't this a duplicate of http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/8855 ? cc @Shokhet – msh210 Jul 25 '15 at 00:50
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    I would just like to add that my use of the word deity was because I sometimes see the word G-D used in a Jewish context and I was unsure if just plainly using the word God would be offensive. On the one hand though English is my second language so maybe Maimonist could cut me some slack. – Neil Meyer Jul 26 '15 at 08:38
  • @msh210 I think you might be right...I submitted a vote; let's see what everyone else thinks – MTL Jul 27 '15 at 02:29
  • I think it is partly a duplicate of that question, and also maybe partly a duplicate of http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/863. – Fred Jul 27 '15 at 04:42
  • @msh210 The reason I didn't VTC immediately was because this question could be a little broader than the other one; Neil, was your intent to ask about the Holocaust specifically, or as an example in a broader question? – MTL Jul 27 '15 at 13:21

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How about the Book of Lamentations? King Nebuchadnezzar? The Assyrians? Sennacherib? The Bar Kokhba rebellion being crushed? The Cossacks? ...Shall I go on?

The Jews don't need life to always be positive in order to believe in "our Deity" and we certainly didn't need World War II to tell us that we are susceptible to the wiles of our enemies while being in a stage of exile.

Those who, subsequent to the heinous acts of the Nazis, "reviewed" their relationship to their nation and to the God who brought them out of Egypt and gave them the Torah largely adopted the pollyannish notion that God's existence necessitates that He prevent troubles of any kind from taking place in the world. And many of them forgot the long history in that part of the world of Jews abandoning the covenant that our people made with God - and they certainly forgot the national curses which were enumerated in the Torah that were to come upon us in the event that we ever conceded to the delusion that the Jewish nation does not need God or His laws to reside safe in their dwellings wherever they may be.

Instead of Jews being asked by the non-Jewish world how they deal with the "problem of evil," I propose that the non-Jewish world ask themselves how they account for the evils that they have visited repeatedly upon our people.

The real question that non-Jews should be "reviewing" in light of a very bloody history of Jewish suffering at the hands of the nations is how they could continually allow themselves to abuse and murder our people while asking us to consider blame God for our suffering.

It is not for us to review, it is for the nations to take responsibility.

I and many other Jews tire of this kind of question. Even if asked honestly it tends to smack of derision and implies that Jews are in a quandary of faith when in reality it is the nations that should be in such a quandary, but largely refuse to acknowledge it.

Why don't people post this type of question in a reverse form on Christian forums asking them why, if they claim that "God is love", have they relentlessly throughout history murdered us, burned our books, and stolen from us? Or on an Atheist forum a question could be posted as to why, if they do not believe in God, do they feel the need to relentlessly attempt to get Jews to turn their back on theirs, while constantly standing with Israel's enemies - even to the point of arming them?

The problem, you see, is not how the Jews can still believe in their God, but rather how the nations can still believe in themselves.

I hope that this has given you some perspective in your quest to understand. Be well.

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    I agree with most of the substance of what you wrote, though I think the tone is too harsh given the seemingly benign intentions of the OP (even though OP's choice of words could be viewed as offensive, I don't expect it was meant that way). And your current phrasing seems to monolithically aggregate non-Jews (including the OP) into a guilty collective. That is perhaps unfair, and it does not have direct bearing on the heart of the OP's presumably well-intentioned question. All in all, I think this answer has great potential, but I would not upvote it in its current form. – Fred Jul 24 '15 at 21:36
  • @Fred I agree with what you wrote and I too was not going to upvote, but I did to counterbalance the downvote. Let us not forget משלי כ׳ו ה׳ עֲנֵ֣ה כְ֭סִיל כְּאִוַּלְתּ֑וֹ פֶּן־יִהְיֶ֖ה חָכָ֣ם בְּעֵינָֽיו׃ ענה כסיל . הבא להסיתך לרעה הודע לו אולתו : פן יהיה חכם בעיניו . וטעם שני פסוקים אלו מפורש בתוכם אל תען בדבר שתשוה לו אם תענהו ענה כסיל בדבר שאם לא תענהו יהי' חכם בעיניו : – user6591 Jul 24 '15 at 21:47
  • I made some changes and made it more general. I also removed the emphatic "Good day." How is it now? And BTW, to even say "God is a god" is hillul HaShem. As Rambam writes in his principles, He is not "one of a type." Be careful. –  Jul 26 '15 at 04:15
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    If this is the sort of response you can get for asking honest questions then I really have to reconsider if this is the site for me. The incorrect use of lower case letter seems rather trivial thing to garner this type of response. – Neil Meyer Jul 26 '15 at 10:16
  • @Neil Meyer - Read carefully. It was certainly not your use of a lowercase d that engendered the answer, it was the question itself. Feel free to peruse the links provided in the comments to your question for a more general answer. As for this answer, I gave it precisely because it is not found at those other links and because it is part of how Judaism deals with the problem of evil to attribute it to those who perpetrate it. –  Jul 26 '15 at 13:45
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    re lowercase cf http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/22865 inter alia: I do it -- FWIW. cc @NeilMeyer – msh210 Jul 27 '15 at 02:33
  • @Maimonist see Eicha Rabba parsha 3 , 7. About halfway through, the Mashal about the king who goes away etc. this question was predicted there:) – user6591 Jul 28 '15 at 02:06
  • @user6591 Nice :) So from what you see there, do you think that there is wisdom in how to deal with the question? Kol tuv. –  Jul 28 '15 at 02:28
  • @Maimonist I appreciated your answer from the get go. The one issue I had with the original version was that IIRC it seemed to lump Niel in with the actual persecutors, which was a bit harsh as Fred pointed out, which was why I hesitated to upvote. In it's present form, this answer is an eloquent masterpiece IMHO. Your paragraph "The real question etc" hits the nail on the head as far as an answer to the nonjewish questioner. From this medrash, we only have an answer to ourselves, which is to focus on our Kesuba, the torah. It was. just a "happy little accident" that I found it now. – user6591 Jul 28 '15 at 02:44
  • @user6591 - Well, thank you. I appreciate your appreciation. And I'm happy for the little accident, as that midrash is a great find. :) Kol tuv. –  Jul 28 '15 at 03:37
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firstly all these sorts of persecutions were predicted in the torah. ex. "And the Lord will scatter you among all the nations, from one end of the earth to the other; And among those nations, you will not be calm, nor will your foot find rest" deut.28

secondly, on the contrary the fact that the jews survived more than all other nations despite being the most persecuted nation testifies to the hand of God guiding them. can you imagine 2000 years without the israeli army? The Jew is supposed to teach humanity "for there is no restraint on G-d to save by many or by few" (Sam. 14:6) as explained in this lecture by rabbi cordoza:

where was God in the holocaust

ray
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