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There are halachic sources that discuss the importance of davening shemona esrei at netz (at sunrise), some of which state that it is preferable to daven at netz over davening with a minyan (at least for those accustomed to davening at netz).

When davening with a minyan around netz, how precise do we consider the categorization of "davening netz?" In other words: Do we attempt to be as arbitrarily precise as possible, or do we assume a margin for "visible netz," seeing as historically they didn't have the same ability to keep time during the gemara?

In terms of practical application, would it be preferable for one to start davening shemona esrei at netz even if it entailed lagging behind or running ahead of the minyan they are presently attending?

kouty
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Isaac Kotlicky
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  • related http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/13226/759 http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/1560/759 http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/47449/759 http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/12416/759 – Double AA Apr 17 '15 at 21:36
  • @doubleaa thanks. I'll look into those. My Google-fu failed me... :) – Isaac Kotlicky Apr 17 '15 at 21:47
  • @DoubleAA the last one seems to imply that as long as you're getting kaddish, kedushah, etc., then there's no problem running ahead IF you are accustomed to davening netz. What if you aren't, but the opportunity presented itself? – Isaac Kotlicky Apr 21 '15 at 09:57
  • Note that cutting it overly close risks beginning before nets. This is due to human error, imprecise timepieces, and the inherent impossibility of exact zemanim predictions, due to factors like atmospheric conditions. – mevaqesh Jan 03 '17 at 16:32
  • I think if we were worried that much about the accuracy, we should probably be more concerned about violating Shabbat based on timing inaccuracies of sunset, and such. That's assuming your premise. – DanF Jan 05 '17 at 18:39
  • @mevaqesh "before netz" would presumably be subject to the exact same "precision" constraints as "at netz." Regarding shabbos we have an explicit obligation of tosefes precisely because of running ambiguities... – Isaac Kotlicky Jan 08 '17 at 14:26
  • Doesn't the beginning of Maseches Berachos answer the first part of this question? – ezra Jan 09 '17 at 03:43
  • @EzraHoerster how so? – Isaac Kotlicky Jan 09 '17 at 22:02
  • @IsaacKotlicky - Perek 4 Tefilas HaShachar see the meimra and the following kushya and teirutz, and especially the rayah from R. Yochanan. Vasikin are those who rush to do mitzvos and thus connect Go'al Yisroel and Shmoneh Esrei by sunrise – ezra Jan 09 '17 at 22:56
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    @EzraHoerster That doesn't answer the question of how precisely we judge netz. If the minyan will get to S"A two minutes after netz as precisely calculated, should I run ahead? or is that assumed to be within the margin of error? If it's a question of human perception, what about being half a minute "early?" – Isaac Kotlicky Jan 10 '17 at 12:49

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