3

For instance, the English sounds of "J", "W","Th", and "Ch" are for the most part unused in Hebrew. Although as an exception, I've seen a Yemenite Chazan use some of these sounds while reading the Torah.

Does the particular makeup of the language mean that only the included sounds are capable of being holy? Is there some other significance to it?

Echad-Ani-Yodeya
  • 1,685
  • 11
  • 19
  • By "Ch", do you mean the voiceless palato-alveolar affricate (e.g. as in the name Charlie)? Because, if I understand your transliteration correctly, there are Yemenites who pronounce the other sounds in "גּ" (/dʒ/), "ו" (/w/), and "ת" (/θ/) or "ד" (/ð/), respectively (as you mentioned). – Fred Mar 20 '15 at 19:49
  • See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Hebrew_phonology#Regional_and_historical_variation (but ignore the letters with apostrophes; they are diacritics relevant only to modern Israeli Hebrew). – Fred Mar 20 '15 at 19:55
  • 1
    Yes, that's the sound I'm talking about, but that was just an example. Not every possible human sound is included in the Hebrew language, which is where this question comes from. Hebrew is made up of particular sounds (with regional / cultural differences). Is there a reason why only these sounds are included in Lashon Hakodesh, the language with which the world was created? Is there something else significant about these particular sounds? What does this say about other languages? – Echad-Ani-Yodeya Mar 20 '15 at 20:20
  • Some of those are not the best examples, I'm afraid, since many Europeans nationals often mispronounce in English "v" as "w" (and vice versa) and "th" as "s" or "t" As Rav Yaakov Emden, z"l, complained in his Siddur "לא כמו שאנו האשכנזים עושים בקריאת תי״ו רפויה כסמ״ך לבשתינו" as cited in this question: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/53498/may-one-mix-and-match-to-create-their-own-hebrew-pronunciation ) – Loewian Mar 20 '15 at 21:12
  • "ch" is technically also constructable as "טש" - "tsh". – Loewian Mar 20 '15 at 21:16
  • 2
    Related (ch): http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/45738/the-lack-of-ch-sound-in-hebrew – Scimonster Mar 21 '15 at 21:25
  • 2
    @Scimonster, not a duplicate? – msh210 Mar 22 '15 at 03:13
  • @msh210 No, because this also wants to know about several other sounds. – Scimonster Mar 22 '15 at 07:55

1 Answers1

1

Quoting R' Avraham DeBalmash: "lashon hakodesh contains all possible movements of the mouth, but there is controversy as to what letter signifies which sound", on which he elaborates between differrent methods.

The yemenites have (some of them at least) kept the original pronounciation intact, where today many if not most Jews have lost some of the more obscure and uncommon sounds in their native country to an extent.

Samuel George Greenberger
  • 53
  • 5
  • 1
    Googling "Avraham DeBalmash" gets me no results at all, for what it's worth. – msh210 Apr 21 '21 at 06:41
  • This is definitely false. Even if we gave every letter a dagesh kal form, a dagesh chazak form, and a shin/sin dot form, that would only be 88 sounds. There are more than 88 different sounds in the International Phonetic Alphabet, even just in the pulmonic consonant section! – Double AA Apr 21 '21 at 12:27
  • @msh210 see https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%90%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%94%D7%9D_%D7%93%D7%91%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%A9 – Samuel George Greenberger Apr 22 '21 at 23:24
  • @DoubleAA there could be more than one sound per letter. For example, you could have an undotted ת be [t] at the start of a word, [θ] at the start of a syllable in the middle of a word, [s] at the end of a closed syllable after a kamatz katan, and [ʈ] at the end of a closed syllable otherwise, except in one particular word where it's [ɽ] for some reason. – msh210 Apr 22 '21 at 23:33
  • The reason there are many more sounds in the IPhA is because diphtongs are used and Lashon hakodesh expressly considers diphtongs of any sort as two vowels and not a single movement of the mouth. – Samuel George Greenberger Apr 22 '21 at 23:43
  • @Samuel diphthongs are vowels. There are well over 88 consonants in IPA and anyway 88 is a joke since clearly most hebrew letters don't have a shin/sin dot or dagesh kal. Do I really need to start listing sounds that don't appear in Hebrew? Which letter indicates African click sounds? Which letter indicates a sneeze? – Double AA Apr 23 '21 at 00:46
  • I apologise, I meant any consonant as well in that ch in charlie which is actually tsh, is considered as two seperate movements and this applies to vowels as well. And Xhosa doesn't count as Hebrew expressly uses the bumaph, datlant etc. sources. The letters in Hebrew moreover, indicate speech, not a bad cold. – Samuel George Greenberger Apr 23 '21 at 01:43
  • I can't believe we're actually doing this... Which letter means american r? Which letter mean french j? Which letter is the bilabial trill as found in Kwomtari? How does hebrew distinguish aspirated and unaspirated p as in classical greek? English ch represents an affricate and was not included in the pulmonic consonants mentioned above. A sneeze is certainly included in "all possible movements of the mouth" – Double AA Apr 23 '21 at 02:06
  • @msh210 lol :-) – Double AA Apr 23 '21 at 02:11
  • American r = untrilled r is a light form of Reish. j = is Yud d'gusha, but is under controversy, some say it is Gimel. Aspirated p is Pei un -> Fei. Really, if you want to learn Hebrew, there are millions of courses out there. – Samuel George Greenberger Apr 23 '21 at 02:13
  • Expressly, what languages do you know? if you know latin R' Eliyahu Bachur wrote a book in Hebrew and latin that teaches hebrew, and you can see the equivalents in Latin. I'm off! – Samuel George Greenberger Apr 23 '21 at 02:15
  • Those answers are factually incorrect. American r is not a form of reish, it's an approximant. French j is not yud/gimel, that's american j. And pei/fei is plosive vs fricative, not aspirated vs unaspirated. – Double AA Apr 23 '21 at 10:27