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Are there any sources—and if so what are the sources—in the Rishonim and Acharonim that allow a person to get drunk on Purim day during the Seudas Mitzva?

msh210
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El Shteiger
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1 Answers1

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Although many sources prohibit intoxication (Ramban Comm. to Kedoshim, Rambam Hil. Deos, Meoros Megillah 7b, Kol Bo and Orchos Chaim cited by Darchei Moshe and Beis Yosef respectively in Orach Chaim 695) some sources write hat one may or should get drunk on purim:

1) There is an obligation to get drunk (Rif to Megillah 7b, Piskei Rid, Piskei Riaz, and Tur.) Additionally Minhagim Tirna and Minhagim Kloizner write to get drunk without specifying if it is obligatory.

2) Drink until you cant compute the gimatriyos of baruch mordechai and arur haman (Aguda, R' Yerucham).

3) Drink only up to the point of ad dlo yada (it is ad vlo ad bichlaal): Meoros to Megillah 7b (in one tzad).

4) Drink until you sleep. (Rambam (Hil. Megillah 2:15) Maharam Mirotenburg (responsa).

5) Drink until you cant sing the baruch mordechai song (Tosafos according to Beis Yosef and many others).

6) Seder Hayom writes to get drunk until you pass out (the most extreme view I have seen)

7) M'chir Yayin of Rama (commentary to 9:19).

mevaqesh
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  • Despite the different approaches of the poskim, I think the most straightforward reading of the Rambam is like the Seder Hayom. – Y     e     z Feb 23 '15 at 19:37
  • @YeZ Just in case you havent seen the seder hayom he bashes the rambam for lav davking the gemara and implying that we dont have to drink so much. – mevaqesh Feb 27 '15 at 05:53
  • @yEz I am wondering if you got around to seeing the Seder Hayom...(not meant in any rudeness). – mevaqesh Mar 16 '15 at 03:02
  • I haven't. I don't think it impacts what the simple reading of the Rambam is any more than the Darkei Moshe's interpretation does. (Although, I did quote it recently, trusting the accuracy of your report.) – Y     e     z Mar 16 '15 at 18:29
  • @yEz Of all the Acharonim the Seder HaYom has the most incentive to write that Rambam agrees with him, yet even he agrees that Rambam disagrees. In this he learns the Rambam like all the Rishonim, and virtually all the gedoley acharonim. Their opinion ought to be reckoned with (IMHO) rather than hubristically touting ones own "simple reading of the Rambam". (Again, no rudeness intended). – mevaqesh Mar 16 '15 at 23:41
  • It's kinda funny to call someone hubristic and then pretend it wasn't rude. (http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/15030/no-offense-loophole) The words of the Rambam are ירדום מתוך שכרותו. It doesn't change my mind as to what the simple meaning is if someone else says something different. The Emek Beracha quotes R' Yisroel Salanter as agreeing with me, in any event. – Y     e     z Mar 16 '15 at 23:45
  • @yEz If memory serves he doesnt quote him, as their lives didnt overlap, but rather cites a legend about him. Again it should be notes that Rishonim Meiri and Nemukey Yosef, besides for gedoley Acharonim such as Darchei Moshe and Matte Moshe, all the way down to R. Ovadiah learn not like this. They were well aware of his wording but none of them explained like the "simple" explanation. Evidently that which is simple to our limited intellects wasnt so simple to the great minds of the baalei hamesorah (that I quoted who didnt even consider the other exp. of the Rambam). – mevaqesh Mar 16 '15 at 23:50
  • @yEz Perhaps among other considerations they took this Rambam in the contet of his many other writings such as Hil. Deos, Hil. Yov Tov, Hil Nedarim, Hil. Nezirus (IIRC), Hil. Avel, Moreh Nevuchim, HaMaspik (of his son which is amazingly consistent with his own views), and Peirush to the Torah of his son. NY for example explicitly connects the Rambams. – mevaqesh Mar 16 '15 at 23:53
  • I quote many people who my life did not overlap with. But if you insist on trying to be pedantic, he says שמעתי בשם הגאון... שאמר. I don't know why that would weaken it for not saying "he told me" - we do have an oral Torah, after all. – Y     e     z Mar 16 '15 at 23:54
  • I think your last comment is absolutely correct, and may be why the true explanation of the Rambam could be not like the simple reading, but that does not change the simple reading. – Y     e     z Mar 16 '15 at 23:55
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – mevaqesh Mar 16 '15 at 23:55