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If someone eats a mixture of meat and milk, does he need to wait before eating more meat or milk?

Ypnypn
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    related http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/22900/759 http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/10710/759 – Double AA Jan 20 '15 at 00:49
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    Why would you assume that he doesn't have to go lechumra and wait 6 hours (or wtvr shitta one follows) he ate both so now wait both times – sam Jan 20 '15 at 01:08
  • Similar: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/12169 – msh210 Jan 25 '15 at 06:12
  • Interesting note that may be relevant to some answers: if it's real Basar v'chalav - meaning kosher meat cooked with kosher dairy, it is isur d'oraita and also isur b'hana (forbidden to derive benefit from it). Anything that is isur b'hana also has no shiur (sukkah 31b), so you ate less than a shiur of basar b'chalav no matter what. (However you do have to wait after eating less than a shiur of meat). – Popular Isn't Right Oct 29 '15 at 21:23
  • Yes per Rav Belsky,someone asked him on my behalf – sam Jan 14 '16 at 16:08
  • @sam The Hava Amina would be that Basar beChalav is a new entity. Alternatively, if there's no Bishul Achar Bishul here, then there's no Chashash with eating more milk, because the meat is already "Mevushal" so to speak and there's no concern of Bishul Deoraita in your mouth with drinking more milk. – Double AA Feb 11 '16 at 06:27
  • I hear, butRav Belsky held one would need to wait since the at the end of the day he ate meat and the taste is still there. We are also machmir for both Rashi and the Ramabam's reasons. – sam Feb 11 '16 at 15:40
  • @sam He ate meat-and-milk, at the end of the day. I don't know what Rashi/Rambam has to do with it. IAE a classical source would be more convincing then someone guessing, even if they are smart and have good halachic instincts. – Double AA Feb 12 '16 at 15:37
  • Who's guessing? Also you notice it's a comment rather than an answer,even though I think Rav Belsky is a good answer – sam Feb 12 '16 at 19:37

1 Answers1

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It depends if the meat in the meat/milk mixture is kosher or not

If the meat is from a non-kosher animal then one can eat milk afterwards. Many poskim hold that non-kosher meat is not subject to the meat/milk prohibition. See for instance here on MY quoting the Shach, Taz and Baer Hetev

If the meat is from a nveila or treifa (forbidden meat from a kosher animal), there is a dispute between the Rashba (who forbids it) and the Rambam (who permits it). Since this is a Torah prohibition one should be strict. See here and here for details (this has practical relevance to know what one can feed once pets) -- thanks to @kouty for pointing out this important distinction

If the meat is kosher then one has to wait the full period before eating more milk because one is "meaty", see R Binyomin Forst here (p. 131) who writes

One who, in error, ate even a large amount of dairy before the end of the six-hour period has not changed his status and must wait the remainder of the six-hour period before eating any additional dairy food. There is no basis for the common misconception that once one eats dairy, he is no longer affected by the meat meal

I heard two reasons from two rabbanim I asked

  • food has no "fourth status" beyond bassari, halavi and parve, i.e., a mixture of milk/meat is both bassari and halavi
  • there might be traces of meat left in the mouth which is one of the reasons one waits between meat and milk.

See also R Ovadia Yosef in Halachos Olam cited here which also says the Kaf Hachaim allows more milk for Ashkenazim but I couldn't find another posek that rules like him.

One can eat more meat after rinsing one's mouth and hands according to many authorities (but not Chabad, and unless one ate meat and hard cheese.)

As always CYLOR if you need a practical ruling in a specific situation.

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mbloch
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  • I don't see any evidence of R Ovadia Yosef discussing eating basar bechalav in that link. I can't check R Forst as I don't have that book handy, but perhaps you should edit in a page number if you can to make it easier for others to check in that book) – Double AA Feb 09 '16 at 14:38
  • Thank you for following up. Now that I see the source I know I can downvote. It doesn't address the question at all, which asked about meat-milk-mixtures, not meat and then later milk. – Double AA Feb 11 '16 at 06:26
  • Regarding whether their mixture has a status different from meat and milk separately, see this Mi Yodeya question: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/52861/759 (ie I don't know for sure either, but assuming one side doesn't help us find the answer) – Double AA Feb 11 '16 at 06:28
  • Hmmm. Logic would be that a mixture of kosher meat and milk is like meat and milk. But I will bn check tomorrow with my two Friday maggidei shiur. I thought you knew it was different – mbloch Feb 11 '16 at 06:31
  • I don't know what logic you are applying. Consider my comment to sam above. – Double AA Feb 11 '16 at 06:33
  • @DoubleAA I am applying the logic that eating meat and milk makes you bassari. The idea of a "new entity" occured to me but I never heard of it. Will check more with people who know so much more than me that it is not even fun – mbloch Feb 11 '16 at 06:38
  • Applying "eating meat and milk makes you bassari" to answer the question is almost tautological. The interesting question would be how you know that's a true premise, and not "eating meat and milk does not make you bassari". – Double AA Feb 11 '16 at 06:40
  • @DoubleAA I hear you - I thought the question was interesting because of (1) the misconception R Forst mentions and (2) the idea of non-kosher meat not making one bassari. Other than that I thought indeed it was quite pashut – mbloch Feb 11 '16 at 06:42
  • Those two concerns are dealt with already elsewhere http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/12169/759 and https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/10710/759 – Double AA Feb 11 '16 at 06:44
  • @DoubleAA I checked with two rabbanim from Bnei Brak today, one a rosh kollel who spent 20 years in Ponovezh, the other a younger rav who spends his days learning and teaching. Both told me that one is bassari after eating either milk/meat in sequence, or a mixture of milk and meat. Food has no "fourth status" beyond bassari, halavi and parve, i.e., a mixture of milk/meat is both bassari and halavi. Last reason they gave is that there might be traces of meat left in the mouth, which as you know is one of the reasons one waits between meat and milk. Shabbat shalom – mbloch Feb 12 '16 at 12:03
  • Ok so you should make that your answer (and clarify its source ("I heard from two rabbis I asked")) and remove everything else which doesn't address the question. (I'm not particularly convinced, btw, by your sources, nor do I see what traces of meat have to do with anything (since it's possible they aren't meat but "meat and milk" and it's possible that even if they are meat, they are meat which isn't Assur to cook with milk as it's already cooked.) – Double AA Feb 12 '16 at 15:30
  • @DoubleAA done - I hear your "it's possible" and agree it is possible - but there are no sources you or I could find to support these assertions – mbloch Feb 13 '16 at 16:53
  • Two kinds of non Kosher meat. 1) Nevela utrefa from pure domestic animal 2) not Kosher due primarily to not pure animal. If I remember the second does not be concerned with Bassar Bechalav, but the first does. – kouty Feb 24 '16 at 07:17
  • @kouty it is a mahloket Rashba (who prohibits neveila and milk) and Rambam (who who permits it), see http://www.etzion.org.il/en/download/file/fid/4096 and http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/english/halacha/jachter_1.htm (under II B) - thanks for pointing it out and I will edit – mbloch Feb 24 '16 at 07:58
  • @mbloch If I understand the Rambam prohibit cooking with Malkuth, and eating is without Malkuth d/t Ein Issur Chal al Issur. And the Rashbo thinks that everyone is Malkuth see the second paragraph inthe right top – kouty Feb 24 '16 at 11:36