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The rules of mathematical logic classify a vacuous truth as being true. Therefore, if I say "All of my answers with score >500 have been accepted," that is a true statement according to the rules of logic.

Does Judaism acknowledge this kind of statement as being either true or false? Would מדבר שקר תרחק tell me to avoid making such statements?

Double AA
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  • They also have not been accepted – Double AA Nov 12 '14 at 19:41
  • http://www.torah.org/learning/integrity/distfalsehood.html – Yishai Nov 12 '14 at 19:44
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    It probably depends if your listeners are knowledgeable in logical discourse or not. – Double AA Nov 12 '14 at 19:59
  • Probably involves גניבת דעת. – user6591 Nov 12 '14 at 20:03
  • @user6591 What is deceptive about it if it is true? Maybe you just tend to misinterpret words, but should that stop me from speaking accurately? – Double AA Nov 12 '14 at 21:07
  • @Double if i misinterpret based on my own choice of understanding,that would not be גניבת דעת. If you the speaker chooses misleading words, that would be גניבת דעת. In the example given, the number 500 definately leads the listener to think they exist. – user6591 Nov 12 '14 at 21:48
  • @user6591 I don't see how it leads to any conclusion other than it is not the case that he has answers with >500 score which are not accepted (contraposition). The statement is completely true and hence has no false implications. What is misleading? The only people I can imagine being misled the way you describe are those who tend to misunderstand things because they unfortunately haven't been taught to think correctly. Do I need to worry about them sufficiently to not say correct things? – Double AA Nov 12 '14 at 21:52
  • @DoubleAA "The statement is completely true and hence has no false implications" is simply untrue. The most common situation where it does if it is said in response to a question which implies that it was a response to the question, but in fact was just intended to evade the question while giving the impression that it answered it. If the statement in the OP was said in response to a question "Are your highly voted answers always/generally accepted?" it is misleading. – Yishai Nov 12 '14 at 22:47
  • @Yishai It cannot be objectively misleading! If it was said in response to that question then it is clear the person is not answering the question, assuming both sides are speaking plain simple standard English. If the asker or responder is expecting a certain kind of non-literal/non-standard usage then indeed one could miscommunicate to them, but the same is true if I spoke a language very much like English where yes means no and no means yes. You always need to assume both sides are speaking the same language. Speaking different languages will certainly result in miscommunication. – Double AA Nov 12 '14 at 22:50
  • @DoubleAA, I don't know why "objectively misleading" (if you mean that as the legal term of art) is the relevant standard for גניבת דעת. – Yishai Nov 12 '14 at 22:58
  • @Yishai I never said it was. You told me my statement was untrue because it was actually misleading. Apparently you have an objective standard of misleadingness. I have argued this whole time that in the case where you know one person is unfortunately not trained to understand language properly, then tricking them by speaking a different language than theirs (even if correct in yours/the standard's) is lying. – Double AA Nov 12 '14 at 23:00
  • @Double You are thinking like a Vulcan. This is based on what regular, dare i say normal people would conclude based on the implications of the statement. Rightfully or not. – user6591 Nov 12 '14 at 23:01
  • @DoubleAA, I didn't say your statement was untrue because it was misleading. I said that completely true statements can have false implications based on context, so something being completely true does not conclude that it is not misleading. – Yishai Nov 12 '14 at 23:04
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    downvote? [15 c] – Y     e     z Nov 13 '14 at 19:41
  • A good point, raising a question of dealing with formal logic in Judaism. IMHO it doesn't. the core of Judaism is the lack of formal logic, which allows for all the Talmudic discussion. 2. Another thing Judaism totally lacks is the methodology of anything. There's no system of what can or can't be claimed and what can or can't be accepted as a valid conclusion. 3. Take just any simple Halacha you know and try to trace it down to its source - is it formally logical? Therefore it's pointless to expect an answer, I think.
  • – Al Berko Sep 20 '19 at 12:38