Mesorah of Rabbeinu Gershom

Question

Rabbeinu Gershom, whose takkanot are considered binding by many Ashkenazim, is often the earliest name which I hear being cited in relation to the Ashkenazi mesorah. From whom was his mesorah, if known? Can it be traced back to Chazal?

See Haym Soloveitchik's essay in his Collected Essays. I don't recall if it's in volume 2 or 3. — Double AA, Oct 28 '14 at 15:52
I don't understand your question. Are you looking for an earlier source for any of the takkanos attributed to Rabbeinu Gershom? Are you looking for proof that Rabbeinu Gershom had a 'mesorah', as in, a teacher of Torah or asking who that person was? — הנער הזה, Oct 28 '14 at 18:20
@Matt, I'm looking for the chain of his mesorah, as it represents the tradition of all Ashkenazi Jewry. — Noach MiFrankfurt, Oct 28 '14 at 20:43
@DoubleAA volumes 2 and 3 haven't been published yet. I thought you were joking — הנער הזה, Oct 28 '14 at 20:46
@Matt My comment will probably still be there when they are though. IINM the relevant essay will be in 2 — Double AA, Oct 28 '14 at 20:50
@NoachmiFrankfurt what do you mean by mesorah? Do you just mean who he learned from or who was in his yeshivos? http://books.google.com/books?id=TDlAAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA1181&ots=bpdJ0IbBbl&dq=%D7%94%D7%A7%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%AA%20%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%99%20%D7%90%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA&pg=PT24#v=onepage&q&f=false — הנער הזה, Oct 28 '14 at 21:01
@Matt, his rabbanim and their rabbanim dating back to Bavel or Yisrael if possible. — Noach MiFrankfurt, Oct 29 '14 at 18:48
dupe of http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/29134/teacher-and-tradition-of-r-judah-ben-meir-hakohen?rq=1 ? — Noach MiFrankfurt, Oct 29 '14 at 18:50
To summarize the thesis set forth by R. Dr. Soloveitchik and in collected Essays vol. II and elaborated on in vol. III, the Ashkenazic mesorah was founded by a group of Babylonian scholars who, annoyed with the increasing liberalisation of their "mainstream" Geonic counterparts, moved to the Rhineland to start anew. Thus, in spite of a few Palestinian/ Italian influences on Ashkenzaic liturgy, their massoret in learning is a continuation of those maverick Babylonians. If you are interested I will post this as an answer, but at this time I do not have the collected essays, so all is from memor — mevaqesh, Aug 09 '16 at 02:42
@mevaqesh would this not fit into my question on ashkanazi masoro as a whole? — MoriDowidhYa3aqov, Jul 19 '17 at 04:02
also can you link me to a volume 3? i only know of 2 volumes — MoriDowidhYa3aqov, Jul 19 '17 at 04:25
@MoriDowidhYa3aqov I was a bit misleading. In Volume two he attempts to demonstrate that they had a tradition and attempts to refute the idea that their halakhic tradition was Palestinian. Instead he attempts to demonstrate that their tradition was Babylonian. He suggests that their tradition stems from Babylonian schools other than the two yeshivot, (and provides evidence that such schools indeed existed). He writes that in Volume three (as of yet unpublished) he will elaborate on all of this. (This is all from memory). — mevaqesh, Jul 19 '17 at 04:32
@MoriDowidhYa3aqov It seems to indeed be a subset of your question, but neither are dupes, since this is (slightly) more narrow in scope. (Although it basically asks the same thing as your question. | If anything, yours would be a dupe, as his was first. — mevaqesh, Jul 19 '17 at 04:34
@mevaqesh im getting the chapter this is talked about within this week. ill be looking through it with a magnifying glass.
right that is what i meant that his was more of a break away question regarding a single persons masoro, while mine asks for the entirety of the masoro of ashkanazim, which in this case actually relies on this one person as well lol — MoriDowidhYa3aqov, Jul 19 '17 at 04:41
@mevaqesh, why would R' Soloveitchik argue that the Ashkenazi mesorah was specifically Bavli, rather than Yerushalmi? If we follow the Italian hypothesis, then R' Soloveitchik's theory seems somewhat misled. — Noach MiFrankfurt, Jul 19 '17 at 14:26
If 'we' follow the Italian hypothesis who is we? He demonstrates that much of the alleged Palestinian positions received via Italy are bogus. Sure they picked up some liturgy, but that isn't the same as what he is discussing; a living halakhic tradition. — mevaqesh, Jul 19 '17 at 14:51

score 2 · Answer 1 · answered Oct 29 '14 at 16:59

2

From this article on early roots of Jewish life in Germany, it sounds like Rabeinu Gershom himself wrote about Rabbi Yehudah ben Rabbi Meir HaKohein (aka Rabbi Leontin) in one of his teshuvos, that it was "...Rabbi Leon who taught me the majority of his learning."

answered Oct 29 '14 at 16:59

gt6989b

3,047
16
22

But then who was R' Léontin's menorah from? – Noach MiFrankfurt Oct 29 '14 at 18:47
Not much info on Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehuda_HaKohen_ben_Meir), unfortunately. Jewish encyclopedia mentions more (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/9011-judah-ben-meir-ha-kohen-hazaken) and it seems to me he came to Germany from France. A scholar of that level this time period is likely either a talmid or a talmid of a talmid of the Babylonian Gaonim -- but not sure exactly. – gt6989b Nov 03 '14 at 20:44

score 1 · Answer 2 · answered Jan 15 '23 at 10:25

Maharshal writes that based on his references, Rabbeinu Gershom learned from Rav Hai Gaon, who was the son of Rav Sherira Gaon (who in turn has a whole letter in which he lists the complete chain of all the teachers until Moshe Rabeinu):

Sherira Gaon transmitted the law to his son Hai Gaon (born 956), who was last of the geonim. Rabbenu Gershon Meor ha-Golah (died 1040), Rabbenu Hananeel, and Elijah ha-Zaken, who was brother-in-law of Hai Gaon and brother of Jekuthiel, received the traditional law from Hai Gaon and from Jekuthiel.

https://www.sefaria.org/Teshuvot_Maharshal.29?lang=bi

A very interesting teshuvah by the way. Worthwhile to read, it is translated to English on Sefaria!

In this article there are much more historical details about this story, including the fact that Rav Hai Gaon traveled several times to Europe: https://mishpacha.com/the-roots-of-german-jewry/ — Binyomin, Jan 15 '23 at 10:39

score 0 · Answer 3 · answered Oct 29 '14 at 20:45

The Shaim HaGedolim from the Chida brings three opinions regarding who his teacher was. One is Rav Hai Gaon, another is Rabbeinu Chananal, and the third is Rabbi Yehuda Ben Meir HaKohen HaZakein who is called Rabbeinu Leontin.

The entry for the latter has no biographical information, but under Rabbeinu Leontai it says in the notes that this is an Italian version of the name Yehuda, and he is referenced that way in Hagaos Maymonis.

Mesorah of Rabbeinu Gershom

3 Answers3

Linked