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  1. Do Chasidim not wear ties as a rule?

  2. If so, is this by design or an accident of history?

  3. If by design, where can I find said intended reason in print?

HodofHod
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WAF
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    [Not serious] I once heard that where a chasid wears a gartel as a barrier to keep his brain and heart unpolluted by his base instincts, a Litvak wears a necktie as a barrier to keep his brain unpolluted by either his base instincts or his heart. – Isaac Moses Nov 24 '10 at 02:34
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    @IsaacMoses The way I heard it was: a Rabbi wears a gartel; a Christian priest (lehavdil) wears a collar; and a Muslim imam wears an agil (the cord used to keep a keffiyeh in place)... – Alex Nov 24 '10 at 03:21
  • @Isaac actually the joke goes both chassidim and litvaks tie their respective separations between their heart and their erva. Yes, only chassidim say the joke. – user6591 Sep 05 '17 at 01:43

7 Answers7

11

Most Chasidim do not wear ties. However there are some that do. Those that do not - do so as "In Der Alte Heim" they did not either. Those that do - do so as "In Der Alte Heim" they wore them.

For example: The Skvere Chasidim wear boots year round. The reason they wore them "In Der Alte Heim" was due to the severe cold weather. However they have continued to do so even in the sweltering hot humid weather in the USA.

Gershon Gold
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    Actually, the boots are to avoid the issue of knee pants vs long sleeve pants. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ASkver_(Hasidic_dynasty)#Unique_Customs Indeed, Kiev, which is not far from Skvira, has a summer mean temperature of 13.8 to 24.8 °C (57 to 77 °F), which does not justify boots. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv#Climate – Adám Aug 01 '13 at 16:50
  • Indeed, Gershon, how do you know this? – Double AA May 13 '14 at 03:47
10

It could be based on the prohibition of Chukot HaAku"m, as wearing a tie has no particular inherent practical purpose. See particularly (and ironically) the Beiur HaGr"a YD 178 sk 6.

Double AA
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9

To elaborate on what Gershon Gold said, some Chassidim davka wear ties. A prominent example that comes to mind is the house of Ruzhin, which includes, for example, the Sadigura and Boyaner courts, among others, in which even the Rebbes wear ties.

Mordechai
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6

I have heard from Hasidim that the reason many groups do not wear ties is because the cravat was originally only worn by the priests in those countries they came from. This seems like a very unlikely explanation in light of the fact that it originated as a very trendy fashion statement of first soldiers and then dandies. Most likely, because it was a modern, enlightnement era fashion statement, most of the Hasidim stayed away from wearing it.

HodofHod
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Yahu
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    These days ties serve a fashion purpose, but not a functional one (as we have collar buttons). You could try to argue that therefore wearing a tie is something "senseless", and it's a problem for Jews to adopt senseless non-Jewish behaviors (why else would you be doing this if you weren't trying to act non-Jewish?). But R' Moshe Feinstein writes that American clothing styles are all about looking good (or trying?) and therefore not "senseless." – Shalom Nov 24 '10 at 18:51
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    Shalom, I'm not sure what you are getting at. I am maintaining that many Chasidic leaders felt strongly against wearing ties because ties represented to them the free-wheeling spirit of the Haskalah. – Yahu Nov 25 '10 at 11:35
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    Yahu, I'm saying some might say it's chukas akum. Your point is a good one, regardless. – Shalom Nov 26 '10 at 12:56
  • Shalom, thanks for clarifying. Are you implying that Chukas Akum would apply to any senseless custom and not just to those associated with Avodah Zarah? BTW, Rav Leib Bakst ZT"L used to poke fun at our "need" to wear fancy ties by telling us how in the Mir they used to use their ties as napkins - For them it clearly wasn't senseless - Imagine the convenience! ;-) – Yahu Nov 26 '10 at 16:09
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    Yahu, yes, even if doesn't derive from anything idolatrous or prurient, if it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, why would you be doing it other than trying to look like a non-Jew? See the Igros Moshe on American clothing for more. The Maharik allowed a Jewish member of a doctors' guild to wear their exclusive cape because it's not senseless, it's a smart business move to identify your expertise. There are very few things I can think of today that fall into the "senseless" category. (Well there's one in R' Moshe, but that's a complicated discussion ...) – Shalom Nov 26 '10 at 20:01
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As @avrohom pointed out, the 7th Lubavitcher Rebbe (Rabbi Menachem Mendel) did indeed wear ties. Thanks to @Alex for the links: here, and here

In addition, it has become common practice for Lubavitcher Shluchim of the Rebbe to wear ties as well.

HodofHod
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4

The Lubavitcher Rebbe wore ties.

ertert3terte
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avrohom
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    Which Rebbe???? – Gershon Gold Nov 26 '10 at 18:03
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    I'd guess he means the Lubavitcher Rebbe; there are indeed pictures of him from both his younger years (http://bp0.blogger.com/_2V_BgMY2q6U/RkFKcUZMeiI/AAAAAAAAAQk/WgS16Vdr6YI/s320/Rebbe+pic+110.bmp) and his older ones (http://bp3.blogger.com/_2V_BgMY2q6U/RkFKBEZMeeI/AAAAAAAAAQE/FM6FFEdEtDc/s320/Rebbe+pic+106.bmp) where he's wearing one. – Alex Nov 26 '10 at 19:28
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    But Avrohom, it's true that you'd do well to specify more clearly. – Alex Nov 26 '10 at 19:29
  • The Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe wore a tie as well. Once one of the Melachim Chassid (a break away from Chabad) criticized the Rebbe for it saying it was materialistic. This Chasid sadly left Yiddishkeit and lived in Crown Heights until the 80's. Rabbi Paltiel remembers seeing him on Shabbos Washing his car Davka. –  Mar 12 '12 at 15:48
  • @mochinrechavim I'd be interested to hear that shiur (I'm guessing that's where it's from). Do you remember which one it was? – HodofHod Apr 23 '12 at 00:54
  • @HodofHod It was said at a Farbrengen in Los Angeles on Yud Tes Kislev תשע’א –  Apr 23 '12 at 01:50
  • The Rebbe encouraged buchrim to wear because when you go to do mitzoim, it looks professional. That doesn't translate to the Rebbe saying everyone to, although many feel it does. I remember reading an account by an elder chosid , where the Rebbe called it a goyisha shmata. You can find pictures of both the Rebbe abd the Frierdika Rebbe wearing them. The Rebbes father didn't as many didn't. Many do not and i personally don't like it, better to make sure you beard isn't cut ever and don't wear that goyisha shmata. – Brian Oct 04 '23 at 01:25
3

I have read all the above answers, and I think they are all valid, however, if you notice, all the above answers either say: These Hasidim b'Dafka wear ties or these Hasidim b'Dafka don't.

So I think the answer is: it depends on your intention!

Are ties evil? How about a knife or (I dare say)... the internet?

Well, in all the above examples it depends.

None are intrinsically evil, but if used wrongly or with evil intentions then they become evil.

On the other hand, if they are used with good and holy intentions - they become refined and uplifted and have thus fulfilled their purpose in this world.

The life force of all these 'neutral' creations (which can be either refined or become evil) is called Klipat Nogah - Which on one hand is a 'peel' which conceals G-dliness, but on the other has Nogah - light - because G-dliness can still shine within them. (see Tanya Ch 7 for a broader explanation)

So to answer your question:

1) Do Chasidim not wear ties as a rule?

If the Chossid feels that he can't do anything positive with the tie (or if the Rebbe of that Chossid decides this for him?) - then, as a rule - he'd stay away from it. He would argue:

It's only there to serve a fashion purpose! (as @Yahu pointed out)...

It's Chukos Akum! - as @Double AA pointed out)

But if the Chossid feels that he can spread Torah and Mitzvos better with the tie - because it's a kind of a garment which honorable people wear - which would/could mean that people will accept/take more seriously what he has to say - then in this case he would wear one. @Shmuel Brin: This is the reason why Shluchim wear ties (not to be stylish G-d forbid)

Danield
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  • Are you saying that applying chukos akum is dependent on the wearer's intentions? – Double AA Oct 29 '12 at 21:03
  • @Double AA :Which Tanna says that ties are Chukos Hagoyim?? The fact that many great Rabbis wear them is proof enough for me that it is not really 'Chukos Hagoyim' but only similar to it. For THIS I can say it depends on the wearer's intensions. If the tie had Shatnes in it however - then intensions wouldn't help ;) – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 21:13
  • Maybe you didn't understand my answer. I'm arguing that it's actually Chukos Akum according to some. – Double AA Oct 29 '12 at 21:14
  • So THOSE people shouldn't/don't wear ties (like I said in my answer) – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 21:17
  • What i'm trying to say is that if there was a clear-cut halacha of Chukos HaGoyim - then there would be an outright issur and nobody would wear ties – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 21:18
  • But that's not what you say in your answer. You say: if the chassid thinks he can't do good things then he'll argue chukos akum, and if he thinks he can do good things then he won't. That's making a mockery of the halachik system; either it's chukos akum or it isn't, independent of the good that can come out of doing it. Different groups will hold differently in the machloket achronim just like usual. – Double AA Oct 29 '12 at 21:21
  • You wouldn't pasken whether a tie is Chukos Hagoyim from a possuk, but rather from a Svoro like: 'it's a useless garment so which goyim wear, so therefore we shouldn't be wearing it' which is exactly what i'm been saying all along. In any case i'd like to see the tshuva you're referring to. – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 21:30
  • @DoubleAA There are Rabbis which say that internet is forbidden. If someone comes along and says: "wait a sec, but I only want to use it for a daily Torah shiur" - is this making a mockery of the halachik system? – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 22:19
  • In a sense, yes they are, but it's (somewhat) clear at least that everyone knows they mean this as a geder/minhag that's not formally forbidden and as such is subject to exceptions. You were talking about a real issur deoraita. – Double AA Oct 29 '12 at 22:22
  • I don't know what passuk you are referring to nor what teshuva you are referring to. See the Gra I reference above. Wearing ties would seem to be an instance of his machloket with the Rama there (about how to paskin a machloket rishonim) about the nature of Chukos Akum. – Double AA Oct 29 '12 at 22:23
  • Excuse me? the whole basis of my answer was that ties are NOT formally forbidden but rather based on svoro/speculation. I tried reading the Gra but I don't think I fully understood it. In any case I didn't see any clear reference to ties. So no, I WAS NOT talking about a real issur deoraita. (Are you saying that it's mefurash in the Gra that wearing a tie is an issur deoraita??) – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 22:44
  • If you want to say that they aren't formally forbidden then why are you quoting chukos akum? Chukos akum is a real formal issur deoraita (one of the 613) with lashes as punishment, it's not just some "idea". The gra and rama argue about what constitutes chukos akum. According to the gra's definition, ties are a problem; according to the rama (and the more common psak) they aren't. I'm not aware of any classic achronim who discuss ties explicitly. – Double AA Oct 29 '12 at 22:54
  • @DoubleAA: did you see Shalom's comment: "But R' Moshe Feinstein writes that American clothing styles are all about looking good (or trying?) and therefore not "senseless. – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 22:55
  • I do now, but that only helps me as R Feinstein (YD 1:81) is quoting the Maharik (86) as Shalom mentioned which is precisely the opinion that the Rama is paskining like and the opinion that the Gra rejects (see the last 5 words of the piece I referenced). – Double AA Oct 29 '12 at 23:02
  • Are you saying that If you follow the Gra, then it's ossur to wear a tie? Something tells me this is wrong because i've seen religious Jews who follow the Gra and wear ties. – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 23:07
  • @DoubleAA in any case from the gist of my answer it is clear that your intentions will only help when we're talking about a 'neutral' object not a forbidden one. As I said above: in hachi nami: for those that say it's ossur- it's ossur! But if you insist, i'll edit out the bit about Chukas Akum – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 23:11
  • Furthermore , did you notice that the original question was only directed towards Chasidim - because - quite frankly - Jews from all other sectors of Judiasm wear ties. The only hava amina was with - pious - Chasidim – Danield Oct 29 '12 at 23:31
  • I don't know of anyone that follows the Gra on everything. (How many Gra-nicks do you know who end off the third bracha of bentching on shabbat with מנחם ציון ובונה ירושלים?) Some follow him more than others. And re your last point I know at least 3 very 'pious' individuals who are mitnagdim to their core and refuse to wear ties. – Double AA Oct 29 '12 at 23:59