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It seems odd that something like the tradition for techeles could have been lost. It seems unlikely that Jews just stopped using techeles at some point and then immediately forgot. Are there no records of how the dye was made?

msh210
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yid
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  • See the Tshuva of the Satmar Rebbe – sam Jun 25 '14 at 19:51
  • how and where can I find this? – yid Jun 25 '14 at 19:53
  • http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=20289&st=&pgnum=196 – sam Jun 25 '14 at 20:05
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    My understanding is that it was out of fashion because it was too expensive. Once you can't afford it, no one makes it, and the memory gets lost ... – Yishai Jun 25 '14 at 23:38
  • Related: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/38503/5323 – MTL Jun 26 '14 at 02:27
  • @yishai teffilin were cheaper – sam Jun 26 '14 at 15:56
  • @sam, yes, because they are made from readily available materials. Techeiles is more similar to Lulav and Esrog, which was indeed in great danger of being lost among Ashkenazim. BTW, that isn't intended to contradict the reason of the דברי יאול - why the Mitzvah doesn't apply is a different question than how it happened that the Mesorah was lost. Put it this way, I don't think he means to say that the Chachamim after the Churban Bais said stop making Techeiles. Rather Hashgacha Pratis arranged it because the Mitzvah isn't really applicable. – Yishai Jun 26 '14 at 16:54
  • How do you explain the techeles of Mordichai acc to the Divrei Yoel,it suddenly came back? – sam Jun 26 '14 at 16:58
  • @sam, I only read a couple of paragraphs of the דברי יואל looking for what you were referring to. If you could point me to exactly what you are thinking of, I'll take a look. – Yishai Jun 26 '14 at 18:15
  • Its the next page it starts ubyimaei Purim... – sam Jun 26 '14 at 19:00
  • The only way there would be no records is if it was a super secret animal that only Jews knew how to use and did so secretly. If it was a known expensive dye source (which there's no reason to think it isn't given its presence in gentile settings, like Achashverosh's court (8:15) or Hiram of Tyre (Chron 2:26)) then of course there are records and there's no secret. The latter position is taken by those who wear Murex Trunculus based dye on their strings since that was the known blue dye source of the ancient Mediterranean and there's no doubts how to make it. – Double AA Jan 21 '21 at 19:06
  • Great sources here: https://www.techeiles.org/library/ https://www.techeiles.org/harav-meir-halevi-hellman-levush-haaron/ לבוש הארון בירור בענין כשרות חלזון המורקס לקיום מצות תכלת An examination of the Kashrus of the Murex snail for Techeiles – analyst613 Jan 24 '21 at 16:48

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I watched in this torah live video (https://torahlive.com/courses/tzitzis/) that in the times of the Romans they threatened to put in jail or kill anyone making or transporting techeiles because they wanted it for royal use only. It also says in Menachos (.מג) that ר'אחאי had techeiles, and he passed away in the year 510ce. Then in Midrash Tanchuma it laments the loss of techeiles so we see that techeiles was lost sometime between the years 510 and 800.

robev
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Blorkit1
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It was still around in the fifth century because the Gemorah (Menochos 43A) when discussing how to make Techelis mentions Rav Achai having Techilis sent to him.

It is unclear when and how Techlis got lost but apparently the Roman government did not allow it to be worn because the Gemara (Sanhedrin 12A) makes reference to an unsuccessful attempt to smuggle techeles from Eretz Yisroel to Bavel. The smugglers were almost killed.

Even in the best of times it wasn't easy to obtain. The fish it comes from only surfaced once in seventy years. Presumably as time went on it became more and more difficult to obtain until it became lost altogether.

Schmerel
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