9

Why does the Torah treat forbidden relationships, even when consensual, more seriously, from our perspective, than it treats rape?

Yahu
  • 16,076
  • 1
  • 30
  • 66
  • 4
    I think arayos is an aveirah bain adam lamakom while rape is bain adam lachaveiroh. Almost all misos Bais din and kares are bain Adam lamakom which indicate that they are more severe in general. – Yoni May 14 '14 at 00:19
  • @Yoni bain adam lachaveraso – Double AA May 14 '14 at 00:21
  • I think the effect on the perpetrator is worse with bein adam lamakom, even if the effect on the world may be worse with bein adam lachaver(as)o. That is, the punishment for forbidden relationships is worse because the act itself is worse, not that the effect necessarily is. – Ypnypn May 14 '14 at 01:29
  • @Ypnypn I would have thought the opposite. מה הוא רחום אף אתה רחום. Hurting a human is hurting a human as well as "hurting" God. – Double AA May 14 '14 at 01:42
  • @DoubleAA True; that's why it's worse (according to my theory) from the victim's point of view. But from the perpetrator's perspective, it doesn't corrupt him as much as bein adam lamakom. – Ypnypn May 14 '14 at 01:51
  • Hence, gilui arayos debases a person and destroys his morality, whereas an ones simply commits an evil against someone else, without harming his own spirituality as much. – Ypnypn May 14 '14 at 01:52
  • 1
    @Ypnypn ??? I just said that hurting your friend is hurting God too. It's both. Worst of both worlds. The perpetrator did two things wrong. – Double AA May 14 '14 at 01:54
  • @DoubleAA Yes, he did two things that were wrong. But he himself wasn't hurt as much. – Ypnypn May 14 '14 at 02:21
  • 1
    @Ypnypn On what basis do you distinguish between the hurting God of rape and the hurting God of random other Bein Adam leMakom? – Double AA May 14 '14 at 02:22
  • @DoubleAA I never said anything about "hurting" God. I mentioned hurting himself. And relations with a relative hurts oneself (morally) more than relations with an unwilling party, since the action itself is more benign. – Ypnypn May 14 '14 at 02:23
  • @Ypnypn I don't really care what you call it. We're talking about the effect on the perpetrator for violating something about his relationship to God ("Bein Adam leMakom"). Your final assertion is just a restatement of the question. – Double AA May 14 '14 at 02:25
  • Related: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/23061/why-is-giluey-arayos-one-of-the-big-3 – Isaac Moses May 14 '14 at 04:15
  • Is this a duplicate of the question @IsaacMoses linked to? I mean, this question asks why giluy arayos is worse than rape, but I don't see how that's different from asking why giluy arayos is different from, say, battery or treason, and all those questions amount to the linked-to question, no? – msh210 May 14 '14 at 06:23

3 Answers3

2

Although all mitzvos are commandments from Hashem whose ultimate rationales are not known to us, Rambam writes (Hilchos Temurah 4:13) that we may nevertheless speculate on the reasons of the mitzvos.

Perhaps the act of sin that is between man and G-d (e.g. gilui arayos) is intrinsically sinful and the consensual aspect does not mitigate its severity. However, the act of a sin that is interpersonal (e.g. rape) is not intrinsically sinful. It is, instead, extrinsically sinful -- for if there was consent it would not be sinful at all; it is only due to the lack of consent that the impact of the act is sinful.

A similar concept is that claims or mitzvos that may be waived are not treated with the same severity and weight as those that may not be waived (איתיהב למחילה or ניתן למחילה)

(Kiddushin 19b בדבר שבממון, Tosfos Shvuos 30b sv Aval (end), Turei Even, Megillah Chapter 4 s.v. ve'ha'amar and more)

Yoni
  • 7,530
  • 18
  • 38
  • If it is about intrinsics v.extrinsics, why is it that by arayos, who the other person is, an intrinsic element of the act, yet by rape, what the other person wants is extrinsic? In both, these are factors that are external to the person doing the sin, they are both contextual factors. – Yahu May 27 '14 at 23:09
  • 1
    @Yahu a factor which can be waived is extrinsic since it is not the cheftza I.e. the item or person which is forbidden but rather the circumstances under which the act happened to be performed. – Yoni May 27 '14 at 23:23
  • who says that there is such a thing as an intrinsic issur? | 2) It is ironic you quote Rambam since he writes that the arayot are prohibited in order to generally inhibit ta'ava. Not only does this not sound intrinsic, but it is not clear why a little too much ta'avah is worse than ruining someone's life. | 3) If there is such a thing as an intrinsic issur, whatever that even means, who says that rape does not qualify?
    • – mevaqesh Aug 10 '16 at 03:02