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I saw that I can use a SodaStream on Shabbos, but I have a specific question: Can I use a Sodastream on Shabbos if it has an LED indicator? If not, is there something I can do to it to make it usable on Shabbos? Would putting tape over the light perhaps help?

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Ilan Katz
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  • @IlanKatz Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist – ertert3terte Feb 07 '14 at 21:58
  • @ShmuelBrin, but you are allowed to open your refrigerator on shobbos. It has a light. – Ilan Katz Feb 07 '14 at 22:03
  • @IlanKatz Says who? – ertert3terte Feb 07 '14 at 22:30
  • http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/11028/732 – ertert3terte Feb 07 '14 at 22:32
  • @ShmuelBrin Exactly. By covering the light it's lo nicha lei. – Double AA Feb 09 '14 at 01:03
  • See here for difference between incandescent and non incandescent lights. http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/english/journal/broyde_1.htm – josh waxman Feb 09 '14 at 02:02
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    @DoubleAA by covering the light it's lo ichpas lei, not lo neicha lei, and subject to a machlokes rishonim, unless having the light covered is somehow detrimental. – Y     e     z Feb 09 '14 at 03:45
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    @YEZ Fine, but it's not as nonsensical as Shmuel is making it sound. It's a psik reshei delo ichpat lei on a derabanan/minhag. (BTW having the light on draws current and presumably wastes a little money...) – Double AA Feb 09 '14 at 04:18
  • @DoubleAA I agree, but it's an important distinction. And according to the Chazon Ish, it may be a d'oraisa. – Y     e     z Feb 09 '14 at 16:34
  • @YEZ Right but nearly everyone rejects that unless you live in Bnei Brak. – Double AA Feb 09 '14 at 18:51
  • Ilan, did you dispenser come with a little instruction booklet? If not, write to them and ask. You might even consider asking them for one that doesn't have an indicator and make a switch. Otherwise, try and make it a practice to make your pop before Shabbos. You can order extra bottles if you want. It really helps because the bubbles stay for a good long while. We make three bottles and use whatever is leftover after Shabbos throughout the week. –  Feb 09 '14 at 15:11
  • We make our sodas just before Shabbos (three bottles worth) from SodaStream (love the product!). Our led light doesn't function anyway. You might perhaps remove the battery. As for fridge lights ... unscrew them before Shabbos or remove them altogether. –  Feb 09 '14 at 00:37
  • How could I remove the battery? Ive tried, I cant – Ilan Katz Feb 09 '14 at 02:12
  • Indeed, depending on the model, you can either remove the battery or not. – josh waxman Feb 09 '14 at 12:17
  • DoubleAA i was talking about if he wouldn't cover it – David Feigen Mar 18 '14 at 21:13

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You can remove the battery and than there is no issue. here is the way to do it. US wont tell you but i found this on a Australia website

http://www.sodastream.com.au/auretail/images/FAQ/SourceBatteryChangeDoc.pdf

yosie
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I was asked this very question by my daughter who also has a Soda Stream model with LED indicator lights. But the model I saw does not run on electric power, but the lights automatically are powered by the action of the soda canister which is fed into the machine that carbonates the water. So I thought you could argue that since my ultimate desire is to carbonate the water (permitted by such authorities as Rabbi Auerbach and the author of Shmirat Shabbat K'Hilchoso) that the automatic LED display which lights up is a "Davar She'eino Tzrichah Legufah"...in other words, is a secondary act which happens not because I want it to happen but which is a result of my primary act which I do want to happen. Much like when you pass a house on Shabbat with security lights which will automatically go on once you go near and pass by the house, even though you do not wish them to go on, you could similarly argue here that the lights are not a necessary part of the desire for carbonated water, and therefore something which you cannot avoid,. and therefore could be permitted.

chaim landau
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  • This case isn't an ein gufa case. This is a psik reisha case. An ein gufa case is a case where the entire action itself is a melacha. An example would be like digging a hole for the dirt. The digging itself is a melacha but it isn't biblically prohibited because it's an ein gufa.however in this case you are carbonating water which isn't a melacha and the secondary outcome is a melacha which makes it a psik reisha d'lo nicha le. Same with the case of the motion detector lights, you are walking which isn't a melacha and the outcome is the lights going on as a result of a permissible action. – David Feigen Mar 18 '14 at 21:03
  • IF ANYONE IS GOING TO "vote down" AN ANSWER EXPLAIN YOUR REASONS – David Feigen Mar 18 '14 at 21:11
  • @DavidFeigen http://meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/144/5323 (read both answers) – MTL Sep 14 '14 at 05:58
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If you don't need the light then it's permissible, because it's a psik reisha d'lo nicha le

David Feigen
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    Who says a pesik reishah delo nichah lei is allowed? Virtually all poskim argue on the aruch! Mechaber, Rema, etc. – Ish Ploni ViKohen Mar 18 '14 at 21:59
  • In this case it's definitely permissible, because this case is about an LED light which MOST poskim hold isn't אש. So it's a shvus dshvus. – David Feigen Mar 18 '14 at 22:28
  • Ramo only permits when there's a double derabonon, and sometimes not even then. See law about cutting cakes with letters. Siman 340 I think. Either way, poskim are afraid that electricity is midioraysa when there isn't a need. See reb Moshe about microphones. – Ish Ploni ViKohen Mar 19 '14 at 01:03
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    They only fear it's d'oraisa regarding a heated element like an incandescent light bulb, which according to the rambam even if it is considered אש, it would only be an issur derabonon because your your not heating the filament to mold it into a shape like a black smith. LED lights don't heat up, derabonon right there, it's a psik reisha d,lo nicha le, so we have a shvus d shvus – David Feigen Mar 19 '14 at 01:43
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    @IshPloniViKohen Many Briskers actually rule like the Aruch because IIRC Rav Chaim Soloveitchik thought the Rambam ruled that way as well. – Double AA Mar 19 '14 at 03:19
  • @David Feigen this is not true. See Igros Moshe 4:84 in regards to microphones: "One who employs electricity on Shabbat may violate a biblical prohibition, even where there is no hav’ara". Also, a shvus deshvus isn't permitted for no reason. See what I said about the Remas opinion about psik reisha delo Necha lei in my previous comment. – Ish Ploni ViKohen Mar 19 '14 at 05:12
  • @Double AA True, but I'm not aware that they do it lema'aseh. Either way, that reb Chaim is a mistake-- Reb Avrohom Ben HaRambam reports that his father held like Tosafos. Because the Rambam holds melacha sheanah tzricha legufah is chayiv, that would make psik resha delo necha lei a biblical prohibition. – Ish Ploni ViKohen Mar 19 '14 at 05:16