As a corollary to this question, if a woman goes to Mikvah for her conversion "during her period" (let's say on the 2nd or 3rd day), but for some reason (for which she should probably consult her OB/GYN), she doesn't see any blood from the moment she emerges from the Mikvah, is she Tehorah? Does she need to count 7 clean days and then go to the Mikvah again? Does she need to wait a minimum number of days from the onset of her period before she can count those days? If she sees blood after Mikvah, does that begin a new Niddah period with a minimum number of days like a normal Niddah?
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1I'm just going to point out that this is purely a theoretical question. She would be prohibited to marry a Jew for 3 months in order to distinguish paternity – Double AA Oct 18 '13 at 18:33
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@DoubleAA, what if she were converting with her husband? I mean, I know they have to be re-married, but I have not heard that they need to wait for 3 months. – Seth J Oct 18 '13 at 18:39
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1You still wouldn't know if the kid was conceived before or after conversion... – Double AA Oct 18 '13 at 18:42
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@DoubleAA, would it matter? – Seth J Oct 18 '13 at 18:49
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1Yes. Is the kid a convert himself or not (NM to marry a Kohein). This is straight up shulchan aruch YD 269:9. – Double AA Oct 18 '13 at 18:50
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SethJ, Also, I suspect that Halacha, for the purpose of guaranteeing unambiguous paternity, wouldn't take non-Kiddushin marriages into account the way it does Kiddushin ones. (@DoubleAA) – Isaac Moses Oct 18 '13 at 19:12
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@DoubleAA, a baby born to a pregnant woman who converts is considered a convert? – Seth J Oct 18 '13 at 19:27
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@DoubleAA, I forgot about this: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/26036/5 – Seth J Oct 18 '13 at 19:30
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And this: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/15105/5 – Seth J Oct 18 '13 at 19:30
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and this http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/15120/759 – Double AA Oct 18 '13 at 19:31
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(Not that I get all my Halachic rulings on this site -- http://meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/1734/5 --, but I'm far from an expert on conversion.) – Seth J Oct 18 '13 at 19:31
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Bekhorot 46b case of converting during childbirth – Double AA Jan 17 '21 at 14:30
1 Answers
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Rav Yehuda Hertzl Henkin's (Benei Vanim 2:31) discussion of a related case indicates that she is Tehorah as all bleeding before going to the Mikva is Halachically insignificant.
(The case there is whether a pregnant woman converting needs to worry about Dam Chimmud before marrying her Jewish partner.)
Double AA
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Is there any reason to think there's a difference between potential blood and blood that's been seen? E.g., should she have to at least keep 7 clean days in my case, since there was blood, and any blood that exists in small amounts after she immerses in a Mikvah might be Dam Niddah? – Seth J Nov 18 '15 at 19:02
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@SethJ I don't quite follow your case. Your asking about blood that was discharged from the uterus before the Mikva but was hanging out in the vagina until afterwards? – Double AA Nov 18 '15 at 19:03
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I'm saying, a regular Niddah needs to keep 7 clean days after a minimum number of 3-5 days of flow. Let's say she has a short period, maybe 3 days. Then she goes to Mikvah on day 4. Your answer says she's Tehorah. That's the first part of my question. The rest of my question is, does she still need to count 7 clean days anyway, since the point of counting is to ensure there is no new blood? Your answer suggests not, which I can accept, but then, if she does see blood after Mikvah (on day 5), can she immediately count 7 days, or does she have to wait 3- 5 days, even though it's not a new flow? – Seth J Nov 18 '15 at 19:34
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@SethJ (I think you're confusing a number of issues in contemporary hilchot niddah about why different numbers of days are relevant at different times (including issues of Zavah and Poletet Shikhvat Zera').) My answer is that she has a new slate after becoming Jewish bc everything prior was irrelevant. When she next sees blood, she should act as in any situation of seeing new blood. – Double AA Nov 18 '15 at 19:40
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I think I was confusing them when I wrote the question. I think I've got it straight now. The question still stands. If we know, factually, that this is a flow that began 5 days ago, and she hasn't seen any blood in at least two days, but, whoops, there it is today, does this mean she has to wait a minimum number of days before counting 7 clean? If she doesn't see any blood at all after the Mikvah, are you sure the ruling above means she doesn't even need to count 7 clean days at all, even though the point of counting is to ensure the flow has stopped? – Seth J Nov 18 '15 at 19:51
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@SethJ I don't think you have them straight... Waiting before counting 7 clean days is due to concerns about emitting semen on a 'clean day' rendering it not 'clean'. If she was recently permitted to her husband then that concern would come into play. If not, not. Nothing to do with anything else. As for counting 7 clean days: a Zavah does that bc the Torah said so. That's it. If the woman in our case is a Zavah then she has to count 7 clean days. If not, not. Nothing to do with anything else. – Double AA Nov 18 '15 at 19:57
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(I know what you're trying to get at -- can the bleedings be connected in any way -- and the only question I can possibly see you testing that with is if this woman can have a Re'iyat Yom Rishon on the day of her conversion and need a Moch miDina, and I don't know the answer, but I suspect the answer is yes. I guess also we can start wondering about the chazaka of her prior vestot.) – Double AA Nov 18 '15 at 20:02
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I think you've answered my question. I don't think I'm confused (anymore). My question is, do we still apply the same rules or not, since at least part of the overall set of rules has reasons that could apply in physical reality, and might that physical reality affect the Halachic status? You're saying, no it doesn't, which is what I would have guessed, but I was open to the possibility that we might be cautious/stringent. – Seth J Nov 18 '15 at 20:03
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