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There is a tradition in Orthodox (not Conservative) to keep niddah like a zava- meaning 4-5 bleeding days and then 7 additional clean days. In the Torah, niddda is 7 days and then mikveh. This was the way it was until the expulsion of the Jewish people when it was felt that people would get confused with the counting for niddah. My question is if the woman went to mikveh after the 7 days, is it ok bedieved? Thanks.

msh210
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Robert S. Barnes
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    I disagree with your assertion that it is (a) a tradition and not a halakha, (b) that only Orthodox and not Conservative or other Jews practice, and (c) the reasons behind the 5 clean days. Under all of that, though (and the inconsistent spelling), you have a good question. Can you try revising it a bit? – Charles Koppelman Sep 22 '13 at 18:57
  • @CharlesKoppelman בנות ישראל החמירו על עצמן שעל כל טיפת דם קטנה כחרדל יושבות הן ז' נקיים כמו זבה גדולה.

    That sounds like a tradition to me. But that's not really the subject of this post.

     – Robert S. Barnes Sep 22 '13 at 19:53
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    @CharlesKoppelman וסיבות רבות לחומרה זאת, והחשובה בהן היא כדי שתהיה לכל הנשים ספירה אחידה, ולא תצטרך כל אחת ואחת לחשב לעצמה חשבונות מסובכים שלא כולן בקיאות בהם. – Robert S. Barnes Sep 22 '13 at 19:59
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    @Robert Charles is right. You are ignoring the issue of Poletet shichvat zera. Plus something that started as a tradition may still later be formally enshrined as law – Double AA Sep 23 '13 at 05:40
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    @DoubleAA does poletet shichvat zera apply to the biblical seven days? I thought the drasha was that her purity cannot be interrupted during the seven clean days. But there is no requirement of purity during the seven biblical days, she can be bleeding throughout as long as she stops before the mikva night. – Baby Seal Apr 07 '17 at 16:03
  • @baby I agree that poletet only matters to a Zavah counting clean days – Double AA Apr 07 '17 at 16:08

1 Answers1

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If the woman did a "hefsek taharah" (meaning she checked herself and was clean) before immersing the Mikva, then M'Doriasa (according to Biblical law), she is okay. But according to rabbinic law, she is still a niddah until she counts seven clean days and then immerses.

Reb Chaim HaQoton
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  • What is the implication of not keeping the de Rabanan in this case? There is obviously not the issue of arayot or karet. – Robert S. Barnes Sep 22 '13 at 01:36
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    How does she know when the seven days are over? what if day "1" wasn't the right color red and was pure. – Double AA Sep 22 '13 at 03:21
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    Because of that question, Chazal were gozer to keep seven clean days. But it seems to be only a chasash d'rabanan. – Reb Chaim HaQoton Sep 22 '13 at 07:34
  • @DoubleAA The assumption in the question is that we know it to be nida M'Doriata. – Robert S. Barnes Sep 22 '13 at 18:30
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    @Robert You can assume whatever you want for arguments sake, but practically no one knows how to distinguish the different colors of red anymore. It is just a lost tradition that you would need a prophet or something to restore. – Double AA Sep 22 '13 at 19:18
  • @Reb What makes it only a chashash derabanan? Do we say Rov blood is the right color or something? – Double AA Sep 22 '13 at 19:33
  • @DoubleAA What are you talking about regarding shades of red? If you see blood accompanied by one of the three "feelings" or if you do an internal examination with a checked cloth and see blood then you are nida m'doriata. I've never seen any discussion of shades of red being relevant in such a case. – Robert S. Barnes Sep 22 '13 at 19:48
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    @Robert That's probably because you've only read works that discuss modern applications of Hilchot Niddah. See Niddah 2:6 for example. – Double AA Sep 22 '13 at 19:55
  • @DoubleAA So everyone who says that under those circumstances a woman is nida m'doraita is fibbing? – Robert S. Barnes Sep 22 '13 at 20:10
  • @RobertS.Barnes No. They may be speaking imprecisely, but that happens all the time when people don't view the precision as relevant. You mentioned, for instance, "one of the three 'feelings'", yet some say there are more than three and some say there are less than three. My point is just that this topic is a lot broader than you seem to realize (at least from what you have said here) so if anyone is on the level to start counting days like they used to, you (as you have presented yourself here) don't seem to be there. (I don't claim to be there myself either.) – Double AA Sep 23 '13 at 15:09
  • There are quite a few of these: https://www.mikvahcalendar.com/getting-started.php – Robert S. Barnes Sep 23 '13 at 15:17
  • @DoubleAA You keep mentioning the color of blood, but interestingly enough I haven't encountered any sources that discuss this as a reason for current practice. Can you point me in the right direction? Or was this tradition still well-defined until somewhat recently, and you are giving a new reason? – Baby Seal Apr 07 '17 at 16:11
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    @DoubleAA also I seems like, as is the case nowadays, a woman essentially declares herself impure as is implied in the verses. She counts seven days, and then if the bleeding has stopped, she is good to go. – Baby Seal Apr 07 '17 at 16:17
  • @DoubleAA I recognize the distinction there, because by declaring herself tamei she has started a 12 day process at least, instead of a 7 day process, so we may say that the 12 pay period has mostly likely encompassed her period, – Baby Seal Apr 07 '17 at 16:18
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    @babyseal I think it's Rabbenu Yonah perhaps in Megillah that mentions the color issue. I'll try and check in a few hours. Already in the bavli we have amoraim who couldn't distinguish the colors – Double AA Apr 07 '17 at 16:19
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    @DoubleAA its also very interesting because there appears to be a strong emphasis on timing before there was a focus on color. Status seemed to depend on when she bled, rather than on what color it was. – Baby Seal Apr 07 '17 at 16:26
  • It would be really cool to see how a modern Sanhedrin would treat these laws, especially when we have technology that can help keep track of things. – Baby Seal Apr 07 '17 at 16:29
  • @BabySeal The shade of red of the blood actually isn't relevant. The underlying issue is whether or not the blood originated in the uterus. If the blood originated in the uterus, the woman is niddah, if not, she isn't. The color / shade issue was simply a tool Chazal used to determine whether or not the blood originated in the uterus. One place this issue is discussed is in Niddah 65b, which I quote at the end of an answer to a different question here: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/47814/2205 – Robert S. Barnes Apr 08 '17 at 17:08