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I am specifically referring to Coconut Oil. I know that my question is similar to this one: Is Extra virgin olive oil kosher by default? but My question is also about non-olive oils. Due to the huge olive oil industry there is a large profit to be made in manufacturing fraudulent products which is part of the analysis as to whether or not to permit (extra virgin) olive oil without a hechsher. In addition the product I have says: Free of: Milk, eggs, peanuts, shellfish, fish, soy, gluten, titanium dioxide. The specific product I am referring to can be seen here: http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-extra-virgin-certified-organic-coconut-oil-54-fl-oz-10

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Gavriel
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3 Answers3

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Per the CRC-Chicago it requires a Hechsher.

Q: Does extra virgin coconut oil require hashgacha?

A: Extra virgin coconut oil does require a hechsher.

Rabbi Abe Sharp responded to my e-mail sent to the CRC-Chicago why a Hashgacha is necessary for extra virgin coconut oil.

It may be due to equipment issues and cross-contamination with non-kosher productions.

Gershon Gold
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Based on the OK article I mentioned in this answer, coconut oil would need a hechsher.

According to the Wikipedia article on coconut oil, all the different methods of creating coconut oil involve cooking or baking the coconut, and some of the methods involve additives.

The OK article discusses the concerns involved in oil production, and how Extra Virgin Olive Oil is the exception, since it is a cold press with no further processing.

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Menachem
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  • The product I referred to says that this extra virgin coconut oil is cold pressed and %100 unrefined. Does that mean, according to the OK article, that it would not need a hechsher? – Gavriel Aug 01 '13 at 18:12
  • @Gabi: As always, for practical advice, CYLOR. I don't know what goes into cold pressing extra virgin coconut oil, but see the process explained here: http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/category/cold-pressed-extra-virgin-coconut-organic-oil.php . Even though it is cold-pressed, they dehydrate the coconut first. Contrast this with extra virgin olive oil, where they just press the olive. – Menachem Aug 01 '13 at 18:25
  • See http://www.evolvingwellness.com/essay/how-to-choose-a-coconut-oil-comparing-best-and-worst-brands: Coconut oil is processed normally using expeller-pressed or cold-pressed technology. Expeller pressing is a chemical-free mechanical process that extracts oil from seeds and nuts. The temperature reached during pressing depends on the hardness of the nut or seed. The harder the nut or seed, the more pressure required to extract the oil, which in turn creates more friction and higher heat... – Menachem Aug 01 '13 at 18:31
  • ...Oils that are cold pressed are expeller pressed in a heat-controlled environment to keep temperatures below 49ºC or 120ºF degrees. -- Note that that temperature may be Yad Soledet, according to some opinions: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/9239/603 – Menachem Aug 01 '13 at 18:32
  • Heat caused by friction doesn't necessarily cause a Kashrus problem. – Yishai Nov 04 '15 at 17:25
  • @Yishai: Of course, but Yad Soledet Bo is enough to transfer taste that was absorbed inside the press previously. So you need to make sure there is no Kashrut problem. – Menachem Nov 05 '15 at 20:19
  • @Menachem, I mean heat caused by friction even if the heat is above Yad Soledet Bo. Its in Hilchos Pesach regarding a mill, have to look up where if I have time. – Yishai Nov 05 '15 at 20:21
  • @Yishai, I'm not familiar with that sugiya, but I would think there would be a difference between kernels/flour (solid) that are heated up by a mill and an oil (liquid) that is heated up to above Yad Soledet Bo. – Menachem Nov 06 '15 at 06:46
  • @Menachem, maybe it does. I said "doesn't necessarily". – Yishai Nov 06 '15 at 17:12
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Per Rabbi Yitzchak Abadi the coconut oil is fine without a hecsher. (Same with sesame seed oil, which is not just his opinion but the opinion of the Rema.)

If you were to ask Rabbi Abadi why kashrut agencies would tell you it needs a hecsher for fear that it might get contaminated with other products, I assume he would tell you that its part of the ways in which hechaher companies try to make money by keeping people ignorant of the halacha. He would then encourage you to read the shulchan arukh to find out what the halacha is, rather than listen to the guidelines designed by the hecsher companies that are far beyond what the halacha requires.

Source for the coconut oil: http://kashrut.org/forum/viewpost.asp?mid=53596&highlight=coconut oil

Double AA
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Aaron
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    "for fear that it might get contaminated with other products" it is common in the manufacturing world for equipment to be used for lots of different food items. it is rare factory lines are only making 1 product. This is not unfounded. Also not all ingredients need to be listed on the label as long as they are below a certain 5 even when they are essential to making the product per civil law. This answer is full of holes and clearly wrong – Laser123 Dec 13 '17 at 17:20
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    @Laser123 What is a certain 5? And why wouldn't the rules of eino ben yomo apply? – Aaron Dec 13 '17 at 17:49
  • first of all the rule of eino ben yomo is a 24 hour period. how would you know how long in between each run is the equipment not used? second of all there are factors you are ignoring which makes just eino ben yomo by itself insufficient. – Laser123 Dec 18 '17 at 14:52
  • @Laser123 We assume eino been yomo with keilim of non Jews. http://etzion.org.il/en/noten-taam-lifgam-what-if-one-accidentally-cooked-food-non-kosher-pot – Aaron Dec 19 '17 at 12:18
  • I see but this doesn't mean that one can use this without a hechsher as regardless if the ben yomo status the kelim still need to be kashered. – Laser123 Dec 21 '17 at 22:49
  • (To be clear the Rama [apparently] thought sesame oil didn't need a hekhsher in 1550. We don't know what he would think today.) – Double AA Dec 21 '17 at 22:55
  • @Laser123 Please quote a halakhic source from a major codification for your statement. Otherwise your comment has no weight. – Aaron Dec 22 '17 at 03:34
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    @Aaron the 5 in the first comment should be read as % - below a certain % food manufacturers don't need to disclose ingredients. Example is that tuna in oil can have a certain percentage of animal oil instead of only vegetable oil. Another example of "things you wouldn't know if an OU mashgiach hadn't told you" is that green beans are sometimes manufactured next to "beans & pork" and that the same hot water is used to heat both pots rendering the green beans unkosher. Modern manufacturing creates lots of new kashrut issues beyond what the SA knew – mbloch Dec 22 '17 at 04:37
  • @Aaron the source is R Moshe Elephant, head of the OU kashrut department, speaking on Dovid Lichtenstein's Headlines Halacha program Dec 17, 2016 https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-vfcim-65b799 (at 22:10 or so) – mbloch Dec 22 '17 at 14:00
  • @Aaron for one it is in the link you posted. did you even read all of it? – Laser123 Dec 22 '17 at 17:24
  • @Laser123 I posted it to find the source for keilim Stam being eino been yomo. If you follow the Shulchan Arukh you will discover that kashering is required for our vessels, not the vessels of non Jews. – Aaron Dec 24 '17 at 17:51
  • @mbloch Thank you so much for this recording. I will be reaching out to Mr. Elephant to ask him for his sourc e. – Aaron Dec 24 '17 at 17:53
  • @Aaron he explained on another program that he and his mashgichim are traveling all over the world in factories and see what is going on there. But tell us what you learn - this is the sort of unique MY learning from bringing multiple viewpoints together – mbloch Dec 24 '17 at 17:55
  • @Aaron from the article you posted, "The Gemara, however, rules that it is rabbinically prohibited to use a non-kosher utensil, even after a day has passed, lest one come to cook in a keli which is ben yomo. In other words, a "keli she-eino ben yomo" is still prohibited, mi-derabanan." – Laser123 Dec 25 '17 at 01:50
  • @Aaron from the crc Rabbi Dovid Aronin. In general, crude vegetable oils do not pose a kashrus concern. However, in order to prepare oils for retail sales they can be processed to be deodorized, refined, and bleached them. These, and other hot processes done to prepare these oils for consumer use, are many times performed on equipment which is also used to process animal fats, which are not kosher. Accordingly, processed vegetable oils require hashgachah. – Laser123 Dec 25 '17 at 01:51
  • Extra virgin olive oil is a notable exception. As with other oils, the description of “extra virgin” indicates that the oil is being obtained by cold pressing the produce, and there is no heat involved with the processing of the oil. This would alleviate any concern with shared equipment. Additionally, there are industry standards for olive oil as to what purity is required to label an item as extra virgin. It is for this reason, the cRc considers extra virgin olive oil as a Group 1 (inherently kosher) and does not require a hechsher. – Laser123 Dec 25 '17 at 01:51
  • Other extra virgin oils, such as extra virgin coconut oil, do not have such an industry standard, and therefore they require a hechsher. – Laser123 Dec 25 '17 at 01:51
  • @Laser123 Yes, we are prohibited from using such utensils. But again, this does not apply to non Jews. We also need to use keilim that are toveled, they do not. – Aaron Dec 25 '17 at 03:48
  • we are prohibited from using such utensils. that's where your response should have ended. your analogy of comparing something not kosher to toveling is not an apt comparison. – Laser123 Jan 02 '18 at 04:18
  • @Laser123 we are not allowed to personally use them. This is different from benefitting from others using them – Aaron Jan 03 '18 at 05:40
  • the benefit whether we own it and use it or someone else owns it and uses it for us is the final product which may have been made in a non kosher keli. without hashgacha there is no way to know whether the keli is kosher to use or not. The bigger problem that just the kelim is also the ingredients as well. Unlike extra virgin olive oil which has specific common industry practices other oils do not. Not only that but companies don't have to list all ingredients below a certain percentage. There is no guarantee that coconut oil is 100% coconut oil – Laser123 Jan 04 '18 at 15:23
  • @Laser123 it doesnt need to be 100% coconut oil. But anything thats not coconit oil needs to be less than battel b'shishim. Which it most likely is. But hey, if you dont like what in saying. Go ask Rabbi Abadi. Hes the source for this. Or go ask the Sepharadi Rav in Jerusalem who says keilim dont even need to be kashered anymore because they dont impart taste like they did in the times of the Gemara. Im just offering what Ravs are saying – Aaron Jan 05 '18 at 17:26
  • something which is added on purpose as an integral part of the process cannot become botel b'shishim – Laser123 Jan 09 '18 at 13:44
  • @Laser123 says who? The way I (and Rabbi Abadi) understand the Shulchan Arukh, stuff can be added on purpose as long as one was not intending to add it for reasons of nullifying it. So if a non jew wants to add 1/59th bacon bits to vegetarian food for flavor thats kasher. But if he adds it knowing that the bacon will become battel then its prohibited – Aaron Jan 10 '18 at 07:45
  • it's not that simple. if the item impacts the color then it cannot become botel b/c even at that amount it clearly has an impact on the product, if it was added for flavoring then since it's purpose is to add flavor it cannot be said to be botel even if the amount is more than a 60th, and the above would also apply to emulsifiers, and anything else purposely added that will impact the creation of the product even when the physical amount is less than 1/60 – Laser123 Jan 19 '18 at 19:17