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if there are two patients about to die of kidney failure and there is only one kidney available, does the halacha have a way to choose who gets the kidney? (such as lottery)

(assuming both cases are completely identical)

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  • related: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/10062/is-it-better-to-kill-1-person-or-let-5-die?lq=1 – Menachem Jul 19 '13 at 05:54
  • wouldn't you assume the one who fell into complications first? – Bochur613 Jul 19 '13 at 22:20
  • @Bochur613 both cases are identical. – ray Jul 20 '13 at 20:28
  • @Menachem seems related but actually very different question. – ray Jul 20 '13 at 21:06
  • @ray one of the answers there discusses this idea. – Menachem Jul 21 '13 at 01:12
  • Whose body would take to it better. – sam Jul 21 '13 at 04:27
  • @ray I can't seem to see how this situation can arrive. People are on organ transplant lists and the order dictates who gets first. Am I missing something? – Bochur613 Jul 22 '13 at 01:07
  • @Bochur613 let's say you're on a deserted island in the middle of the pacific with 2 patients one kidney and a team of doctors and no communication equipment with the outside world – ray Jul 22 '13 at 06:09
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    @Bochur613 Why would you assume the earlier one takes precedence? – WAF Jul 22 '13 at 18:43
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    Both cases being completely identical is an impossibility. Halacha (even theoretical) does not deal with questions of impossibility. –  Aug 31 '21 at 17:23
  • @Tesvov If you can show that there is always a relevant way to discriminate the patients then that would be an answer. It's not obvious to me that there always is. – Double AA Aug 31 '21 at 17:25
  • @DoubleAA - if you have two completely identical Etrogim in front of you, does the halacha have a way to choose the one you should perform the mitzvah with? –  Aug 31 '21 at 17:33
  • @Tesvov The closer one אין מעבירין על המצוות but I'm not sure what your point is – Double AA Aug 31 '21 at 17:36
  • @DoubleAA - the etrogim are completely identical, including their distance from you, so this can't be the way to chose. My point is that its impossible for halacha to choose between two completely identical options. –  Aug 31 '21 at 17:41
  • @Tesvov It still might give a guideline of what to do. Maybe a lottery? Maybe whoever gets there first? Maybe we let them fight? Maybe we perforce can't help either since we have no way to pick? The gemara debate שודא דדייני and כל דאלים גבר they don't just say "I don't know -1". – Double AA Aug 31 '21 at 18:25
  • Wouldn’t it seem most prudent and simple to let the donor decide who they want to give it to. If they decide to do a lottery, so be it – Chatzkel Aug 31 '21 at 22:24
  • @Chatzkel That advice only works in the case of a live-donor. – Double AA Oct 22 '21 at 16:57

1 Answers1

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Rambam in Hilchos Talmid Torah 4:8, gives order of precedence for replying to Torah questions. His conclusion is that when two people appear to be of the same rank, the discretion of precedence is up to the person making the decision. In absence of other guidance, I would conclude that the same principle applies in this situation as well.

הָיוּ הַשּׁוֹאֲלִין שְׁנַיִם אֶחָד חָכָם וְאֶחָד תַּלְמִיד נִזְקָקִין לֶחָכָם. תַּלְמִיד וְעַם הָאָרֶץ נִזְקָקִין לַתַּלְמִיד.שְׁנֵיהֶם חֲכָמִים שְׁנֵיהֶם תַּלְמִידִים שְׁנֵיהֶם עַמֵּי הָאָרֶץ שָׁאֲלוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם בִּשְׁתֵּי הֲלָכוֹת אוֹ בִּשְׁתֵּי תְּשׁוּבוֹת אוֹ בִּשְׁתֵּי שְׁאֵלוֹת שְׁנֵי מַעֲשִׂים. הָרְשׁוּת בְּיַד הַמְתַרְגֵּם מֵעַתָּה:

Loose translation:

If two people asked a question simultaneously:

  • If one is a sage and the other is a student, preference is given to the sage.
  • If one is a student and the other is a commoner, preference is given to the student.
  • However, if they are both sages, both students, or both commoners ... From this point and onwards, the decision [of precedence] is up to the translator [the one accepting questions].