We see from this answer that wine poured by a Jew who rejects Judaism is yayin nesech. Would that cause the wine to be forbidden even to himself, or is it only forbidden to others? Would he be violating halacha every time he drinks non-mevushal wine?
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dupe? http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/16577/759 – Double AA Apr 24 '13 at 16:23
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1@DoubleAA I don't think its a duplicate (though it's certainly related). But you may wish to copypaste large swaths of your answer there over to here. – msh210 Apr 24 '13 at 16:37
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@msh210 My answer there actually relates to a mumar lechallel shabbos not a mumar la'avoda zarah. – Double AA Apr 24 '13 at 18:41
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I presume you will have the same question about his cooking being subject to bishul akum and whether he may cook for himself on yom tov since one may not cook for a mumar. Is there any reason to believe he should be treated vis-à-vis himself any differently than others treatment of him? I guess a nafka Mina is if he touched the wine and then did teshuva – Yoni May 26 '14 at 00:37
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@Yoni Another NM is Lifnei Iveir. – Double AA May 26 '14 at 03:55
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JD Bleich had a piece about this in Tradition a few issues back. Need more later. – Shalom May 25 '14 at 23:32
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@DoubleAA perhaps... big machlokes according to noda beyhuda no lifneu iver with mumar – Yoni May 26 '14 at 13:14
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related http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/30433/759 – Double AA Dec 22 '14 at 15:10
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Very similar: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/64320 – msh210 Oct 27 '15 at 16:02
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Wait, are you asking about an idolater or a heretic? – Seth J Oct 27 '15 at 16:27
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2@Shalom May a Sabbath-Desecrator Drink Wine? by J. David Bleich http://traditionarchive.org/news/article.cfm?id=105659 – wfb Jan 25 '16 at 18:50
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If he's drinking directly from the bottle, then he might avoid the problem... :) – Isaac Kotlicky Feb 24 '16 at 17:36
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Are you asking if he poured it for Avodah Zara, or for other purposes? – SE is Evil - Support Monica Feb 24 '16 at 17:46
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@SamuelManuel Not for Avodah Zara. For the purpose of drinking it. – Daniel Feb 24 '16 at 17:46
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@Daniel then it's stam yainom. Yayin nesech is when it's poured for avoda zorah. – user613 May 24 '16 at 21:37
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@user613 Ok. That doesn't change the question. – Daniel May 24 '16 at 22:56
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What is the side that not. Of course Yes!!!! – kouty Jun 23 '16 at 21:08
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@kouty See the answer. Looks like Rav Feinhandler and Rav Eliyashiv hold "no". – Daniel Jun 23 '16 at 23:00
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@Daniel Shkoyech! And Shkoyech for question – kouty Jun 24 '16 at 01:41
1 Answers
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The Avnei Yashfei Chelek 2:61:4 asks a question and offers an answer that may answer this question.
He was asked if one can serve a cup of wine to someone who is a mechalel shabbas.Since once the mechalel shabbas touches the wine he renders it assur and in effect will be drinking yayin nesech.
Rav Feinhandler (the author) answers that it is possible to say that when we prohibit the wine of a mechalel shabbas we are placing a kenas (penalty) to stop his bad behaviors and we "consider" his wine to be like if a non-Jew touched it. He notes that he himself is able to drink the wine since a non-Jew is not prohibited from drinking the wine himself rather we aren't allowed to drink it. Therefore a mechalel shabbas isn't more stringent than a non-Jew and he wouldn't be prohibited from drinking the wine himself. He ends of by saying that it isn't too clear because maybe he gets the status of a non-Jew lechumrah only and would not be allowed to drink it. He also told over this svarah to Rav Eliyashiv who agreed to his psak but not to his reasoning which I just outlined (see the tshuva inside to see why Rav Eliyashiv agreed to allow him to drink it.)
It seems from your question that if he was an actual idol worshiper than its a non-starter and the wine should be prohibited based off an actual issur of receiving benefit from avodah zarah. If you meant a mechalel shabbas then maybe he would be permitted based off this svarah.
sam
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2I'm not sure about your penultimate sentence. Even if he was an actual idol worshiper, his wine might not be forbidden to him unless he literally uses that wine for idolatrous purposes. – Ypnypn Oct 27 '15 at 15:38
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The יש לומר at the end of Rav Feinhandler's teshuva is a משמע to me. I don't understand why the fact that a non-Jew is not prohibited from drinking the wine himself means that a mechalel shabbos should also not be prohibited. The mechalel shabbos is Jewish, so it wouldn't be surprising to me to say that he has additional restrictions. – Daniel Oct 27 '15 at 16:03
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