Ethics in video games: idol worship

Question

Background

I sometimes play a certain computer role-playing game (RPG). In this game, my character (whom I might name after myself but who does not otherwise resemble me) fights mythological creatures and collects handy items. In the end, I aim to have my character retrieve a powerful treasure from the place where it is kept.

If I choose, my character can choose to worship one of 18 available "gods". If my character kneels at an altar, prays to it, or sacrifices creatures, then the "god" I choose might give my character special abilities or better items.

My questions

Can you cause a character to worship a "god" while playing such a computer game? If so, why?
What if you modify the source code of the game and rename all the "gods" to "Hashem"?

Disclaimer

Please ask your rabbi instead of trusting what you read here, for various reasons.

Note: I have already tried various Google searches, such as [ halacha computer | video game idol | deity | zara | zarah ]. None have helped. — unforgettableidSupportsMonica, Apr 19 '13 at 20:26
Interesting question. Some related cases that may have rulings: violent video games, reading about idolatry, acting out idolatry in a play. — Isaac Moses, Apr 19 '13 at 20:34
Somewhat related: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/28058/is-idolatrous-belief-forbidden-for-jews-or-is-it-just-practice — Daniel, Apr 19 '13 at 20:44
related? http://kotaku.com/some-dont-like-bioshocks-forced-baptism-enough-to-as-473178476 — Menachem, Apr 19 '13 at 21:01
Just to be precise: when you play this game you are controlling a character and it does this "worship", and also this character is not a direct representation of you (though you control its decisions). Right? As opposed to a game where you're "playing yourself", i.e. the character's abilities are based on your physical attributes etc. — Monica Cellio, Apr 19 '13 at 22:33
@MonicaCellio: In the game, I do not play myself: I play a fictional character, such as a warrior or an archer. But when the game asks me to name the character, I might enter my real name: this makes the game assign a sensible filename to my saved game data file. — unforgettableidSupportsMonica, Apr 19 '13 at 23:03
@sam, If you can point to a source that addresses violent games, that may indeed be very useful toward addressing this question. It seems to me, though, that one may distinguish between simulated killing and simulated worship. Given that worship is largely an act of the mind ("'avoda shebeleiv"), simulated worship could be considered to have a much stronger association with actual worship than simulated killing has with actual killing. — Isaac Moses, Apr 21 '13 at 06:06
@MonicaCellio so we are distinguishing, say Diablo, from Second Life? — Charles Koppelman, May 13 '13 at 20:12
@CharlesKoppelman, Diablo vs Second Life is a good way to put it (as best I can tell, having played neither). I think D&D is more like Diablo than SL, but it was popular for long enough that there may well be psak about it. — Monica Cellio, May 13 '13 at 20:28
Related: "May I play a computer game which includes Greek mythological creatures?" — unforgettableidSupportsMonica, May 29 '13 at 23:05
I wonder if you can worship another God in movie? Some jewish actor plays in the Passion movie. What about cursing God in movie, like what Goliath did in David vs Goliath movie. — user4951, Sep 23 '13 at 10:43
If the answers discussing fictional characters' beliefs are not sufficient, I recommend attempting to Ascend using the Atheist challenge. — Codes with Hammer, Oct 14 '14 at 19:04
What about games like the Civilization series that have no real acts of “worship”, but do use real-world religious symbols? Are you required to pick Judaism as your empire's state religion? — Daniel ben Noach, Oct 09 '15 at 07:12
If you're already editing the source code, why not change praying, kneeling, and sacrificing to more halachically benign actions like Rubiks-cubing, break-dancing, and eating nachos. — Silver, May 29 '19 at 18:28
@unforgettableidSupportsMonica is this question about Smite by any chance? — Rabbi Kaii, Oct 04 '23 at 00:46

unforgettableidSupportsMonica · Accepted Answer · 2013-06-20T00:20:24.160

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I asked my local Orthodox rabbi: the (Chareidi) morah d'asrah of a mid-sized Orthodox shul in a North American city of about three million people. He prefers that I not specify his name here. He told me:

It's crucial not to let your character do anything in the game that smacks of idolatry, such as praying to the virtual "gods" in the game. Playing the game in general is like playing with fire. Perhaps the game was created by pagans.
As for the second question: Don't bring Hashem into this.

edited Jun 20 '13 at 00:20

answered May 29 '13 at 22:55

unforgettableidSupportsMonica

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Does this mean I need to cancel my weekly D&D group? – yoel May 30 '13 at 03:01
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@yoel: I'd be intrigued to find out your rabbi's answer. It would be great if you could please create a separate question and attach his answer. – unforgettableidSupportsMonica May 30 '13 at 03:19
To be honest, I don't really want to ask the shaila. :/ – yoel May 30 '13 at 05:00
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@yoel: A) Please see the answer to "I suspect I must do something, but don't want to. Must I check into the halacha?". Does it make sense here too? B) Also, mind to please upvote that question? :) – tealhill supports Monica May 30 '13 at 22:43
Really? Are you sure your rabbi didn't misunderstand the question, thinking that REAL idol-worship was involved? – MTL May 22 '14 at 03:17
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And if it is....can someone who plays these games be a shochet? – MTL May 22 '14 at 03:18
@Shokhet: 1. Did my rabbi misunderstand? I doubt it, but I don't know for sure. 2. Can someone who plays these games be a shochet? Good question. First, steel yourself to be ready to quit playing your favorite game if necessary. Then, ask your rabbi your questions. Make sure he doesn't misunderstand. Let us know what he says. – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Jun 13 '14 at 02:26
@unforgettableid I wasn't asking for myself...I don't currently play any games where this is an issue....is it possible that your rabbi was influenced by previous controversy over these games?; see here and here and the end of the section here – MTL Jun 13 '14 at 14:26
@Shokhet: I don't know. – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 21 '14 at 03:39
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I'm sorry if it looked like I was attacking you ....but honestly, I find it very hard to believe that it would really be forbidden. ....then again, I've never played an RPG, so I can't claim to know how they work :P – MTL Dec 21 '14 at 03:59
@Shokhet: I didn't feel attacked at all. You were asking if my rabbi was influenced by some past controversy regarding D&D. Was he? Maybe yes. Maybe no. I haven't asked him, so I have no idea. :) – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 21 '14 at 04:22
@Shokhet: I was also surprised by my rabbi's answer. However, nobody else here has asked their own rabbi; and anyway, it would be silly for me hold like someone else's rabbi's answer. :) – unforgettableidSupportsMonica Dec 21 '14 at 04:24
@unforgettableid Yeah, this was surprising to me. If ever I decide to take up D&D, this answer at least will have convinced me to ask rabbinical advice first ;-) ( although I'd put down money that my rav would ask me "how much do you really* want to play this game?," and I'd end up never playing anyway* :P ) – MTL Dec 21 '14 at 04:28

score 8 · Answer 2 · answered Feb 18 '19 at 03:54

A seemingly very similar question is posed by Rabbi Gil Student on his website https://www.torahmusings.com/2017/05/video-game-idolatry based on a version of the game Zelda. He goes through several sources and comes out permitting worship in this game based on an extrapolation from the permissability to study religious worship that is no longer actively worshipped. His reasoning is that the religious worship in the game never actually existed and is simply fantasy. He does caution that playing such games may lead one to be desensitized to the concept of idol worship but stops short of ruling prohibitively in the case under discussion.

Therefore in your case if the religions in the game are entirely fabricated and it would appear that you may have your character worship them as necessary and there is no need to rename them "Hashem" (in fact I can think of several reasons why you should not do that.

None of what I have said above should be taken as a practical halachic psak. Please CYLOR for that.

score 3 · Answer 3 · edited May 30 '13 at 01:10

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I don't think that counts as idol worship. Now, I guess one could say that doing such an act would be considered hana'ah because you derive benefit (in the video game) from performing such an act. However, role playing on a computer or even a board game never pops up in any literature that I have read that claims that the player is committing idol worship.

edited May 30 '13 at 01:10

unforgettableidSupportsMonica

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answered May 12 '13 at 08:34

rosen

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Could you clarify what you've read? (I mean, this answer coming from someone who is well-versed in all the rabbinic responsa written in the past hundred years is very different from this answer coming from someone whose reading has been limited to Wikipedia.) – msh210 May 13 '13 at 21:14
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@msh210 And both are different still from someone who is well versed in rabbinic responsa only predating the advent of electricity and early means of remote/virtual communication that might possibly be relevant (eg., perhaps there is some source somewhere since 1844 that equates the telephone to an echo (or not) and thus permits (or prohibits) someone from listening to a Church service by phone). (Added to strengthen your challenge.) – Seth J May 13 '13 at 21:55
I'm talking about in context of games. My depth into Jewish literature isn't all that fantastic (seeing as my Hebrew is only so good, so a lot of what I read is only in English); however, I've never seen anyone equate something you do in a game (video game, board game, children's game, et cetera) as a sin. – rosen May 14 '13 at 14:24
But the God in the video game is real (within game). I mean they give you real stats which you can verify. – user4951 Sep 23 '13 at 10:42
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So jews cannot play chess because you kill the oponent's pieces? remember thou shall not kill – Ess Kay Mar 12 '14 at 18:38

score 2 · Answer 4 · edited May 28 '23 at 06:53

Is one permitted to draw a picture of a non-Jew worshiping an idol? Computer images are no more than enhanced pictures. The "actions" of the images are merely a change of the image. So, I would think there's no problem as far as actual idol worship goes. However, the claim that one should refrain from "playing games" of idol worship is definitely a valid one, and thus I would agree with that Rav's advice.

score 0 · Answer 5 · edited May 28 '23 at 06:55

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Since you are not actually performing idol worship, as it is only simulated in a role playing game, you are not breaking any commandments (unless your gameplay extends into Shabbat).

Essentially, you are not an actor. You are merely controlling electrons inside a computer box. The electrons feed into a program and spit a visual and audio calculation into your screen and speakers. In a technicality, there is no idol worship performed there. Since TVs were not around in the times of the Sanhedrin, there is no rabbinical law against it. And ultimately, a computer simulation cannot be compared to an act of a human. Otherwise, games with murder would also be forbidden for Jews to play.

edited May 28 '23 at 06:55

unforgettableidSupportsMonica

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answered May 14 '13 at 14:18

Ess Kay

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This is what intuition says, but this answer would be more valuable with a source or more support. For example, aren't there actors who are careful not to say and do certain things, in the course of their work, even though they're playing a role? Are they being stringent or is there relevant halacha, and if the latter, does it apply to games too? – Monica Cellio May 14 '13 at 14:25
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Your point about games with murder is a good one and would be worth adding to your answer. – Monica Cellio Jun 09 '13 at 02:59
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However, murder needs an actual human to kill whereas Avoda Zara could be accomplished by worshiping an invisible foreign god. – Double AA Jun 10 '13 at 13:24
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If so then you are still murdering a digital human with your computer controlled character. Moreso, the digital god is a mere fabrication, unlike the rabbinical law where poultry and cheese are not to be eaten in fear that someone may think you eat meat, there is no way to confuse one playing a video game with actual idol worship. – Ess Kay Jun 10 '13 at 14:26
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So in age of empire I can order my peasants to eat pigs and elephants? – user4951 Sep 23 '13 at 10:42
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And when you use the monk to convert enemy units, you need a beis din of three monks. – Clint Eastwood Mar 11 '14 at 15:53
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as long as you do not cook them in their mother's milk – Ess Kay Mar 12 '14 at 18:39
is one permitted to draw a picture of a person (non-jew) worshiping an idle? Computer images are no more than enhanced pictures. The "actions" of the images are no more than a change of the image. So no problem as far as actual idle worship goes. The claim that one should refrain from "playing games" of idol worship is definitely a valid one and thus I would agree with that Rav's advice. – RibbisRabbiAndMore Nov 05 '18 at 17:00

Ethics in video games: idol worship

Background

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