At what point is a man allowed to touch a woman that he has just married. Can they touch after he has placed the ring on her finger and said "harei at..." before the 7 blessings are completed? Are they allowed to hold hands on the way to the yichud room? Can they touch after having yichud even if the marriage has not yet been consummated?
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7If the answer to your last question was "no," they'd be in a bit of a Catch-22, wouldn't they? – Isaac Moses Feb 14 '13 at 17:04
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What does married have to do with touching? – Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 17:08
1 Answers
Shulchan Aruch (EH 20:1) rules that it is biblically forbidden to receive pleasure from bodily contact with anyone who is an Ervah (ie. forbidden to marry).
So, if the bride is a Niddah, than no one may receive pleasure from bodily contact with her. If the bride is not a Niddah, than until she accepts the ring anyone in the room can receive pleasure from bodily contact with her. Once she accepts the ring, she becomes Erva (אשת איש) to everyone aside from the groom and thus everyone else is forbidden to receive pleasure from bodily contact with her, while the groom is not.
Independent of this biblical prohibition, there are general issues of Tzniut/Hirhur (avoiding licentious thoughts) which have to be adhered to always by all (see for example EH 21).
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+1 for making clear what the issues are. You could improve this answer by expanding on your last point to directly address the part of the question specifically about holding hands on the way to the yichud room. – Isaac Moses Feb 14 '13 at 17:42
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@IsaacMoses Tzniut issues are always community subjective. Some might say that tapping her on the shoulder, shaking her hand, giving a mazel tov hug, or taking 'intimate' pictures are not an issue. Some will probably differ on any or all of those. There aren't rules. – Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 17:44
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1@DoubleAA perhaps what you mean to say is that there are not universal rules accepted by klal Yisrael. – yoel Feb 14 '13 at 17:46
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@yoel I guess I meant there aren't precise and specific legal rules. There are general rules which I think are universally accepted. – Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 17:47
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@DoubleAA what is the definition of "pleasure" in your answer? What Hirhur-less pleasure could be derived from touching? – Shraga Feb 14 '13 at 22:04
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@Shraga It's just a translation of the Shulchan Aruch's נהנה בקירוב בשר though the implication is clearly meant to be sexual. As to your second question, possibly a high five? I'm happy that we high fived, but it isn't sexual per se. Maybe also an arm around the shoulder or something. Basically, anything you would do to a member of your own gender could be theoretically done to a member of the opposite gender with the same level of sexual connotation. A lot of it depends on context. The question is a little funny because we don't often use the term tactile pleasures outside of a sexual context – Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 22:10
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@Shraga Additionally, Hirhur towards one's fiance might not be a problem 5 minutes before one gets married. – Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 22:12
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@DoubleAA I don't have a SH"A in front of me to be "me'ayin", but could it be that one cannot deduce from the SH"A in EH 20 that there is a permissible way to enjoy the touch of a non-related pnuya, as there will always be the problem of Hirhur? – Shraga Feb 14 '13 at 22:14
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@DoubleAA, ah, that's a fascinating comment about the five minutes. I indeed wonder what could be the reasons for forbidding it! Maybe simply because there would be no practical way to quantify when it's permissible...? – Shraga Feb 14 '13 at 22:18
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@Shraga 1) I don't see it, but please let me know if you find such a diyuk. 2) Who said it is forbidden? I know of couples who have taken wedding pictures an hour before the wedding to not be matriach the tzibbur after the chuppah. – Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 22:24
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@DoubleAA 1)what I meant was that maybe it's possible that the Rambam would in general agree that there is (almost) no way one could enjoy kiruv basar with a pnuya without Hirhur, and it would (usually) be forbidden. The Rambam there is discussing the issur of Arayos, not Hirhur. 2) That's really cool! Do you know if they asked a Rov beforehand if it's ok to touch, or did they just decide on their own? (I could see a Rabbi not wanting to allow it in general as it may be a slippery slope. But I think it would be really cool from a halachic point of view to hear that a Rabbi said it's ok.) – Shraga Feb 14 '13 at 22:33
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@Shraga In the one case I know of where I know they asked a rabbi and I know what he said, he said they could take pictures where there is non-intimate touching (eg. standing next to each other or something) before the wedding, but should wait for after the wedding to take the more hugging/kissing type ones (although I wonder to what extent that was a halachik vs sociological suggestion; the couple might feel odd doing those things before the ceremony, and would likely be naturally happier and less stressed in those pictures after the ceremony.) – Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 22:42
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@DoubleAA "Than" should really be "Then" and I can't make the edit because it's such a minor change. – andrewmh20 Feb 22 '13 at 00:58
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@DoubleAA "If the bride is not a Niddah, than until she accepts the ring anyone in the room can receive pleasure from bodily contact with her." If you're confident in this info and have a source, I'd love it if you could shed some light on my question here: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/85856/what-sins-would-be-involved-if-a-married-man-slept-with-another-woman – SAH Oct 17 '17 at 22:06