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I have been reading through the various questions about Islam and its relationship to Judaism, and about the Rambam's view that Islam is a monotheistic religion and not idolatry and I am wondering: If I were davening and saying the words, but I believe that God communicated with Mohammed, would my davening be valid?

Assume that I still believe in the one God.

Daniel
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rosends
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  • this looks sorta like the on topic version of http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/14461/759 which means that it is a question of halacha and not one of Muslim theology. – Double AA Jan 06 '13 at 01:27
  • no, not Muslim theology, but Jewish theology and the idea of kavanah -- what are we mekavein TO? A monotheistic ideal or the hashem who did certain things and not others? – rosends Jan 06 '13 at 01:34
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    I don't see why not. Most people I know seem to have a Christian concept of G-d, and nobody seems to stop them from being the Sha"Tz. (sigh) – Seth J Jan 06 '13 at 01:39
  • @Dan How about both? Also, if lets say I believe that 9/11 was a US government conspiracy. So therefore I believe God allowed it to happen. Does that mean all my kavanot are off target because I think God did something which He didn't? I would doubt it. – Double AA Jan 06 '13 at 02:01
  • @SethJ Can you elaborate? I know that many people have Christian concepts of sex, and things like abortion, and unimplanted embryos. But this is the first time I've heard that people have a mistaken concept of God. (i.e. I want to make sure I don't....) – Ariel Jan 06 '13 at 03:11
  • @DoubleAA But believing in theological statements of another religion would end up accepting and attributing contradictory behaviors/statements to god. So is the essence the monotheism, or the identification with particular theological positions. – rosends Jan 06 '13 at 03:13
  • I can't see how the prayers you described would be a) a part of the communal offering from Israel to God, since the person doesn't believe in what Israel is, or b) acceptable from the standpoint of honesty in prayer. – Annelise Jan 06 '13 at 04:12
  • @Annelise, I don't know what you mean by "the person doesn't believe in what Israel is" or why the prayer would necessarily be dishonest (I think that question is sort of the question being asked here), but if you flesh out your comment and argue for it, it sounds as though that would make for a good answer. – msh210 Jan 06 '13 at 07:04
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    If a person really believes that God communicated with Mohammed and that the Islamic community is the community of God's witnesses about Himself in the world, then they do not agree with the Jewish scriptures or the text in the siddur regarding the covenant that still exists between God and Israel as a light to the nations and as people in an intimate relationship with Him through Torah. When you gather to pray these prayers, you're doing so as THAT community. But someone who believes that Mohammed is the messenger of God will believe that the ummat al-Islamiya holds that function instead. – Annelise Jan 06 '13 at 07:13
  • Therefore I don't know why such a person would want to know whether according to Jewish belief and tradition, their prayers are fulfilling the obligations of the Jewish covenant. If they did come and pray these words, then they would be praying things they don't believe. But if somehow they did want to pray the words, and they were doing so with sincerity... do you think that it's possible for them to truly be joining with the community, if they think that the Muslim Ummah is the congregation of the people of God and thus don't believe in what Israel is coming together to do in these prayers? – Annelise Jan 06 '13 at 07:17
  • It would also be helpful to separate whether God accepts, hears, listens, and responds to a person's prayer when they're mistaken about some beliefs (I know He does!) from the halachic question posed here about whether a Jewish obligation is being fulfilled. (Btw, I chose to post a comment rather than an answer because I can't consider this question from a halachic angle.) – Annelise Jan 06 '13 at 07:19
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    @Ariel, well, for the "simple" stuff, there's "man upstairs" language, long beard, white hair, etc. As for theological stuff, there are more problems with theology generally, than conception of G-d, per se, but, eg, Original Sin, but I was mostly being sarcastic. – Seth J Jan 06 '13 at 12:56
  • @Annelise I agree with your sense but, as you gather informationam looking for the halachic view that the object of prayer isn't simply a monotheistic entity but a particular entity. – rosends Jan 06 '13 at 16:32
  • @Dan If you're saying that the Jewish idea of loyalty to the true God is very particular and not just a matter of monotheism... I agree. To believe in particular actions or attributes of God is very important, and can divide between true worship of God and on the other hand idolatry. But there's also a sense in which anyone who calls out to the Creator is directly calling to the true God, the one who actually hears them. Anyway, that's off-topic. I don't know about Jewish law in this matter, and you're probably right... But the two points I wrote seem meaningful to the actual question here. – Annelise Jan 07 '13 at 12:24
  • by the two points I mean the ones I wrote a) and b) next to. sorry if the comments around it were too convoluted to keep the main thought. – Annelise Jan 07 '13 at 12:25
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    I have made an edit which, I admit, changes the meaning of the question, but I believe it makes it much more understandable and answerable. If people think that this edit was improper, please revert. – Daniel Aug 08 '13 at 15:17
  • I think this was the OP's original intent, but the wording confuses the issue. – Daniel Aug 08 '13 at 15:24
  • Natan'el al-Fayyumi considered Muhammad a true prophet with a message for the Arabs, but not the Jews. It's a minority view, but it shows that Judaism doesn't immediately disclaim someone who believes Muhammad was a true prophet as someone who is participating in avodah zarah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism's_views_on_Muhammad – rosenjcb Aug 08 '13 at 15:34
  • @rosenjcb How does that show that? It just shows that one guy had some weird ideas about how prophecy works. – Daniel Aug 08 '13 at 16:30
  • He had a weird view, but if this is the extreme then someone who believes Muhammad was a true prophet (even if majority says this is not true), is not necessarily, immediately considered to be participating in davening that's "invalid." It's just showing perspective. :\ – rosenjcb Aug 08 '13 at 16:35
  • Natan'el al-Fayyumi. – rosenjcb Aug 08 '13 at 18:23
  • The ten commands in Islam are different than how Jews and Roman Catholics view them. For example, Allah forbids drawing pictures of Allah, mentions the holiness of Friday instead of the seventh or first day, and allows—according to some interpretations—the killing of infidels. It forbids wives to commit adultery but allows husbands to have more than a single woman. Islam also, according to some interpretations, allows Muslims to steal from unbelievers. Of course, this is all theory, but the point is not to be missed: don't worship allah, a moon god. – Turk Hill Nov 21 '19 at 19:40

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As they say in the Yeshivishe world "what shaychus?!" If someone is Mehalel Shabbat does that mean his Tefila isn't valid? Why would you assume if you believed in some random prophet that it would invalidate your Tefila?

Therefor your Tefila would be accepted (unless you went against some of the recommendations of the Gemara regarding the acceptance of prayer).

Hacham Gabriel
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The Simla Chadasha recounts a discussion regarding shoctim in muslim countries. Seems that the local authorities wanted the shochtim to say Allah HuAkbar (God is great) before slaughtering an animal. The discussion revolves around whether it is a hefsek to say the phrase between the bracha and the shechita and rules that it is not a hefsek. Implicit in this, IMO, is that it is not an idolatrous statement.

SAR622
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    That doesn't really answer the question. Of course saying Allahu Akbar is not an idolatrous statement. Allah is the Arabic word for God and does not imply anything about God's nature. – Daniel Aug 08 '13 at 14:21