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Many times I've seen people throw the front half of their tallis katan over their shoulder so that it doesn't get in their way. Mostly teenagers playing sports or people doing something that might get it dirty. This way, the hole of the tallis katan is still around their neck, but now both halves of the beged are hanging in the back.

Is this considered "wearing" tzitzis? According to whom?

(This is an issue, since nowadays one is obligated to wear tzitzis all the time (Igros Moshe OC 4:4). Other possible nafkei minah: Making a brocha again if one didn't intend to "fix" it, but does. If the beged is put on l'chatchila this way, does one make a brocha. Walking 4 amos without tzitzis.)

HodofHod
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  • re your first point: if the minhag is to throw it out of the way when it would be in the way, then even if you aren't fulfilling the mitzva you haven't violated the minhag. So no question from Igros Moshe. – Double AA Jan 02 '13 at 22:50
  • Wouldn't the same question apply to someone who wrap their Tallit around their head and throws all four corners over one shoulder? – Double AA Jan 02 '13 at 22:52
  • Ahem: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/18483/5 – Seth J Jan 02 '13 at 23:08
  • Related (comment)? http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/18897/source-for-checking-talis-over-shoulder#comment46499_18897 – Seth J Jan 02 '13 at 23:09
  • @DoubleAA re the first: I don't think it's really a minhag to throw it out of the way. Its something I've seen happen occasionally. Re the second: but that's the halachicly mandated way to don them, isn't it? – HodofHod Jan 06 '13 at 20:49
  • @HodofHod 2) Some say it is, some say it isn't. See http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/11695/759 So either this proves the yes-ers wrong, or you hold it is considered wearing. – Double AA Jan 06 '13 at 22:59
  • @DoubleAA I'm didn't mean to argue for one method or another. I'm saying that whatever method one holds would mean they hold that's right way to don them, hence it is automatically considered wearing them. – HodofHod Jan 06 '13 at 23:41
  • @HodofHod Right, so if you hold to put on a tallis that way, then you must hold it is wearing them. If you hold to put on a tallis in other simpler ways then we have no proof. – Double AA Jan 06 '13 at 23:47
  • @DoubleAA Ah. But can a method for the tallis gadol apply to a tallis katan? Especially since we now where a tallis katan all the time because it's become customary. If throwing the tzitzis over the shoulder isn't the customary way of wearing the tallis katan, maybe one isn't fulfilling the custom. – HodofHod Jan 07 '13 at 00:00
  • @HodofHod Even if throwing tzitzis over the shoulder is the customary way of wearing the tallis gadol for short periods of time doesn't mean one is fulfilling the mitzva. The causation is opposite: if you hold it is fulfilling a mitzva, then you can (but don't have to) hold throwing over the shoulder is the best way to fulfill the mitzva. By your logic, having the tallis folded on one's shoulder should count as wearing too, since lots of people do it. – Double AA Jan 07 '13 at 00:03
  • @DoubleAA Update: I asked Rabbi Elchonon Tauber (a Breslover Rov in LA). He told me that it would not be considered wearing them, al pi Shulchan Aruch, since it's not the proper way to wear them (I think that was the reason). Looking for textual quotes now. – HodofHod Feb 03 '13 at 22:21
  • @HodofHod Did he mention how to deal with the way some people don it in the morning (over the shoulders etc.)? – Double AA Feb 03 '13 at 23:22
  • When I went for chasana lessons (to Rabbi Berel Chaikin of Cleveland) I was told that although usually tzitzis thrown over the shoulder is not considered wearing, if one want to wear it during tashmish then over the shoulder is okay. – Michoel Feb 03 '13 at 23:22

2 Answers2

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Aruch ha-Shulchan OH 8:10:

[...] The mitzvah of tzitzis is primarily that two tzitzis should be in front of one['s body], and two behind, in order that one be surrounded by mitzvos (Tur). It seems that this is sine qua non (l'ikuva), since it is written, "On the four corners of your covering," and the corners are two in front, two behind. [...]

yitznewton
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  • brownie points for anyone who has a good, clean English translation of לעיכובא – yitznewton Feb 04 '13 at 20:44
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    I would probably go with "לעיכובא" = "requisite". (Or as mathematicians like to say, "a necessary condition".) – jake Feb 05 '13 at 05:18
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    Thanks @jake; necessary condition had occurred to me, but there's a connotation of negation to the Hebrew word that I felt was missing. – yitznewton Feb 05 '13 at 16:49
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From Sefer Haminhagim Chabad (page 2), based on the Alter Rebbe's Siddur:

The [minimal required] width of the tallis katan is one amah (cubit) of the Torah measure, which equals 24 generous-sized thumbwidths [i.e., 48 cm.]. This is also the [minimal required] length

a) from the neck hole to the garment's lower edge at the back, and

b) from the neck hole [or from the fillet that laces it closed] to the garment's lower edge at the front.

These measurements can be reckoned only when the garment is fully spread, and no part of it has been folded or creased: folds and creases cannot be included in the required dimensions. One who is careful to fulfill the precept of tzitzis throughout the day should therefore be constantly vigilant.

Michoel
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  • Is he saying that the shiurim can only be determined from the outset while it is spread, or that while wearing it, it can never momentarily fold over? – Double AA Feb 03 '13 at 23:54
  • @DoubleAA Just realized that I didn't paste the link to the Alter Rebbe's siddur properly. Seems to me he is saying the latter. – Michoel Feb 03 '13 at 23:58
  • Thanks. Do you know where is the "Milu'im Siman Gimmel" mentioned in the footnote there about this opinion? – Double AA Feb 04 '13 at 00:08
  • @DoubleAA It's in the back of the book. Seems the HebrewBooks.org copy is missing allot of the end. – Michoel Feb 04 '13 at 00:12
  • @DoubleAA Here you go – Michoel Feb 04 '13 at 00:16
  • @DoubleAA I understand this as referring to the construction, not the mode of wearing. – yitznewton Feb 04 '13 at 14:26
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    @yitznewton "One who is careful to fulfill the precept of tzitzis throughout the day should therefore be constantly vigilant." In fact, many in Chabad wear a "bendle", a little string around the tzitzis, for exactly this purpose: to keep it spread out. – HodofHod Feb 04 '13 at 16:37