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A main part of Judaism is stuff like פרישות and guarding your eyes and thoughts from impurity or fantasies and the like. You’re basically supposed to stay away from any sexual thoughts or whatever until you get married. So how can Chazal tell us this one one hand, but on the other hand the Talmud is littered with stories about sexuality, sometimes even illicit relations committed by rabbis? These stories about taboo topics would clearly spark anyone to begin to fantasize about said topics. Plus, Aggada aside, even any halachic discussions that have to do with let’s say niddahs or all random cases involving women and sexual acts- these would obviously speak the imagination and desire of any Ben Torah.

In short, how can a main part of Judaism be straying away from inappropriate thoughts and desires if a big corpus of our law+stories in the Talmud are centered around sexuality and illicit relationships and whatnot?

Curious Yid
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  • This question would be more compelling if you'd include more information about why you believe that guarding one's eyes is a "main part of Judaism." The answer could well be that the standards you describe for eye-guarding are different from those the Amoraim kept. – Isaac Moses Nov 11 '23 at 23:52
  • How could you imagine a system where a topic is thoroughly regulated but not discussed in the regulations? It's meaningless things like sock colors that aren't discussed a bunch. – Double AA Nov 11 '23 at 23:56
  • תּוֹרָה הִיא, וְלִלְמוֹד אֲנִי צָרִיךְ – Rabbi Kaii Nov 12 '23 at 00:07
  • @IsaacMoses I mean you can argue it’s not a “main” point but it’s definitely pashut halacha. לא תתרו is the prime example. The amoraim must’ve followed that. And there are plenty of other halachot about guarding from lustful thoughts and whatnot – Curious Yid Nov 12 '23 at 00:57
  • @DoubleAA perhaps that would answer why halachic taboo things are discussed (though I think my question still stands- if this is halacha, how can we also be told on the other hand to guard our thoughts from such images and ideas). But in any case, what about the aggadata? Are stories about rabbis being seduced by prostitutes, or wacky midrashim on the tanach that talk about sexual ideas, really necessary? They would seem to simply spur on the yetzer hara, the opposite of what we’re supposed to do – Curious Yid Nov 12 '23 at 01:01
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    Generally speaking, these topics aren't taught to young unmarried men, for the reasons you've given, but for mature, married men, it's not a problem (although they should still be God fearing and careful). All of the stories in gemara are teaching us a very important lesson, e.g that even a very holy rabbi can't let his guard down as the yetzer hara for this sin is never truly conquered until the day we die – Rabbi Kaii Nov 12 '23 at 01:25
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    Does this answer your question? A thought is considered a separate sin? – Maurice Mizrahi Nov 12 '23 at 03:17
  • @MauriceMizrahi not really – Curious Yid Nov 12 '23 at 03:41
  • @RabbiKaii I kind of get that. But still to counter, let’s say any of the stories about rabbis cheating on their wives- yes, an obvious lesson is to not let your guard down, but why do we need these elaborate and creative stories that only spur on the fantasy? Or like the elazar ben durdya story- why are the rabbis telling it with such detail that now we picture a beautiful prostitute and gold beds and whatnot…it just doesn’t sit right with me and I can’t make sense of it. We’re commanded to watch our thoughts, but the Gemara, the supposed “protector”, contains some of the most illicit stuff! – Curious Yid Nov 12 '23 at 03:45
  • @CuriousYid so does Tanach – Rabbi Kaii Nov 12 '23 at 12:08
  • @RabbiKaii true, the Gemara stuff is just more explicit to me. But yeah the tanach does it too. Am I the only one bothered by this? This is like unprecedented levels of cognitive dissonance lol – Curious Yid Nov 12 '23 at 15:46
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    @CuriousYid have you ever learned Shir Hashirim? :) – Rabbi Kaii Nov 12 '23 at 17:17

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