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Torah says that there is no prophet like him and will never come a prophet like him. We know that Eliyah HaNavi will reveal the secrets of Torah which Moshe also didn't know, so then will Eliyah HaNavi will be in a higher level than Moshe?

Dov
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Gembali Noach
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  • Welcome to MY Gembali, so nice to have you here learning with us. There will never be another like him goes on the fact that Moshe spoke to Hashem face to face, conversationally, at any time, not that he taught the highest level Torah, so it would be better if you can find a source that Eliyahu will also do the same? – Rabbi Kaii Jul 20 '23 at 10:13
  • Also there is a gemara in menachot suggesting that Rabbi Akiva 'knew more' than Moshe, or may have been greater. – bondonk Jul 20 '23 at 11:44
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    "We know that Eliyah HaNavi will reveal the secrets of Torah which Moshe also didn't know" I don't know that. How do you know that? – Double AA Jul 20 '23 at 12:36
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    @DoubleAA Sounds like the emphasis is possibly in regard to some aspect of intellect other than "Know" (דעת). Moshe Rabbeinu was shown everything. That is why he is referred to "Lord of the Prophets". All prophets receive via Moshe. Grasp and comprehension, like in regard to the example from Rabbi Akiva, was not necessarily there. This same idea is mentioned in regard to the question from Pinchas to Moshe in regard to the sin of Zimri and Kozbi. – Yaacov Deane Jul 20 '23 at 19:43
  • @RabbiKaii Have you ever bothered to look at the gematria of: ולא קם נביא עוד including the count for the 12 letters? (see Devarim 34:10) Consider what is taught about the level of prophesy of Moshiach in relation to Moshe Rabbeinu. – Yaacov Deane Jul 20 '23 at 19:48
  • @YaacovDeane teach us something good - explain – Rabbi Kaii Jul 20 '23 at 20:46
  • @RabbiKaii You know the posuk cited. In general, it is saying there will never arise an additional prophet like Moshe (on his level of prophecy & all his other qualities). But there is also a teaching that Moshiach will be a prophet close to the level of Moshe and like it says in Shas will teach Torah to Moshe & the Avot. When you add up the gematria of those words from that posuk and include the letters, it indicates that teaching, namely Moshiach. If you don’t recognize the numeric value, show it to Rabbi Friedman and tell him you got this from me. He will tell you what it means. – Yaacov Deane Jul 20 '23 at 21:58
  • @YaacovDeane For the record, I don't speak to Rabbi Friedman often enough to bring minor individual questions of learning to him like this - he is very busy, but I have another Chabad baal chassidus Rav that I learn with regularly and I'll try to remember to bring it up. – Rabbi Kaii Jul 21 '23 at 12:53
  • @RabbiKaii Any Alter Chassid of Chabad will recognize this gematria immediately. It is the Rebbe’s name. This is also the sum of the 3 names of G-d together that we intend at the beginning of the Amidah relating to the Avot. That is where the teaching arises from that Moshiach will teach Torah to Moshe and the Avot. Manis would appreciate you sharing this with him. – Yaacov Deane Jul 21 '23 at 12:59
  • @RabbiKaii One last thought on this subject since you have said more than once now that you don’t speak with Rabbi Friedman very often (because he is very busy). He is old & you are young. Neither you, nor him know how long he will be around as a living resource for your benefit & blessing. Rabbi Akiva constantly peppered Rabbi Eliezer HaGadol with questions. Other students thought this was disrespectful to the Gadol, but Eliezer loved the interactions. As much as the calf wants to suck, the cow also desires to suckle. And it is also hashgacha that our paths have crossed. B”H! – Yaacov Deane Jul 21 '23 at 15:01
  • @YaacovDeane I hear you. Am mekabel. And agreed. I did ask about the people you mentioned about being in touch but haven't found anyone who knows them, do you have an email? You can delete it once I've emailed you. – Rabbi Kaii Jul 21 '23 at 15:47

2 Answers2

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If we can even try to compare them, the simple answer is no, Eliyahu won't be on a higher level...

At best, refer to the Pesikta Rabbasi 4

אתה מוצא שתי נביאים עמדו להם לישראל משבטו של לוי משה ראשון ואליהו אחרון (גואלן) [ושניהם גואלים את] ישראל בשליחות משה גאלם ממצרים בשליחות ועתה לך ואשלחך אל פרעה וגו' (שמות ג' י') ואליהו גאלם לעתיד לבא בשליחות הנה אנכי שולח לכם את אליהו הנביא וגו' (מלאכי ג' כ"ג)... ואת מוצא שמשה ואליהו שוין זה לזה בכל דבר

You find two prophets standing for Israel from the tribe of Levi, Moshe the first and Eliyahu the last. [And they both] redeem Israel - Moshe redeemed (the Jews) from Egypt through a shlichus (lit. a mission) - "And now, you I will send to Pharoah" (Shemos 3:10) and Eliyahu will redeem them in the future via shlichus - "Behold, I will send you, Eliyahu the prophet" (Malachi 3:23)...And you find that Moshe and Eliyahu were equal to one another in many aspects

It then goes on to list several similarities that back up this point.

So one can at the very least posit that they shared similar experiences and are described in similar ways - e.g. "איש האלקים" ("Man of G-d") (see Devarim 33:1 and Melachim I 17:18)

That being said, as far as your point:

We know that Eliyah HaNavi will reveal the secrets of Torah which Moshe also didn't know, so then will Eliyah HaNavi will be in a higher level than Moshe

I am assuming by "Eliyah HaNavi will reveal the secrets of Torah", you are referring to the concept of "Teiku" (see here) - however, it is worth noting the Gemara in Sotah 13a which says expressly:

וְאֵלִיָּהוּ תַּלְמִידוֹ שֶׁל מֹשֶׁה

And Eliyahu was a student of Moshe

So I don't think you can say - "We know that Eliyah HaNavi will reveal the secrets of Torah which Moshe also didn't know" - as he learnt his Torah from Moshe!

Dov
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Curious the source for Moshe not knowing them?

Nevertheless, there is a difference between knowing Torah and being a prophet.

A prophet's main purpose is to relay Hashem's commands. Eliyahu although went up to heaven in a chariot and did marvelous miracles was not on the same level as Moshe Rabbeinu who had a direct connection with Hashem. For example Moshe was able to facilitate Har Sinai.

See בבא בתרא יב עמ׳ א there it states:

אָמַר אַמֵּימָר וְחָכָם עָדִיף מִנָּבִיא שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר וְנָבִא לְבַב חׇכְמָה מִי נִתְלֶה בְּמִי הֱוֵי אוֹמֵר קָטָן נִתְלֶה בַּגָּדוֹל Ameimar says: a Sage is greater then a prophet ''And a Prophet has a heart of Wisdom'' who is compared to whom, say the lesser to the greater.

So you see that one can be greater in wisdom and even be considered greater then a prophet. But that does not mean as a prophet one with wisdom is greater.

Prophecy is a separate quality then wisdom, even if wisdom is considered to be a "greater" quality. They are not comparable imo.

msj121
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