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EDIT: This question appears to be getting repeatedly misunderstood, as captured by DoubleAA's comment. MTL has helped me explain.

You're NOT looking for the minimum number of people for Judaism to exist. You're looking for the smallest number of people who can fulfill all mitzvos (given the context of a fully functioning halachic Jewish society)

In a nutshell, the Arizal says we are reincarnated so that every Jew gets a chance to experience all 613 mitzvot as a chiyuv in at least once. My question is, how many reincarnations would that take, minimum, and which category of Jew would each of those incarnations be?

Who's on the Mitzva Dream Team, the team that could single-handedly win the 613 World Cup?

Here's the original question, with clarifications and rules:

A classic Mi Yodeya question, perhaps a little more light-hearted in the spirit of Purim round the corner (not PTIJ)-

What's the minimum number of Jews we need so that between them they are personally actually mechuyav (halachically obligated) in all 613 Mitzvot, in their lifetime? If we just have a Yisrael, he is not mechuyav in the Cohanic mitzvot, for example. If we just have a men, nobody is mechuyav in the mitzvot of women etc.

So based on the above, we need at least an Israel, a Cohen and a woman. We'd also need a King, but we can be clever and combine categories; if a King is mechuyav in all mitzvot of an Israel, then we don't also need an Israel. We are going for the minimum number.

Maybe a Cohen Gadol can cover everything a Cohen does? Should there be a separate mamzer?

  • Let's assume the Temple is still standing, the tribes are in the land etc. etc.

  • Circumstances can change over life, so I mean across a whole life time. I.e. A person can be eligible for mitzvot of being a child and a parent in a single life, so we don't need to have both a child and a parent in our little mitzva dream team. An eved can be freed etc.

  • With regards to the negative commandments, I welcome people dealing with this in their own way, or defaulting to saying that they should have a valid opportunity to break them. One of them for example should be a male with a sister, to keep the commandment of not lying with one's sister.

  • People required to assist the dream team to keep those mitzvot do not count as part of the dream team. In the above example, the sister does not need to be counted as one of the team, but the brother who refrains from lying with her does. If (hypothetically) women have a distinct mitzva to not lay with their brother, then we'd need a woman in the team with a brother (and we can utilize the above sister if we are being very clever)

  • To make it simpler, if a single Mitzva has multiple angles, "don't lay with your brother or sister", but it's just one mitzva, then fulfilling it from one angle is enough.

Has anyone calculated this ever? If not it might be something someone here with a great knowledge of the mitzvot can calculate for us. Sounds fun!

Background to question: I ask this question based on thinking about Shaar Gilgulim Ch. 16 that all mitzvot are covered over gilgulim. I imagine this is rather poetic, or more complicated than that, as not everyone was once a King I imagine! Still, one wonders if we can achieve a Mitzva Dream Team of just 4 people according to the Asarah Perakim L'Ramchal 10:3, which states most Jews are only reincarnated up to 4 times based on Amos 1:3

To make it as clear as possible then, this is a thought experiment:

We are trying to prove what is the minimum number of reincarnations everyone would have to go through in order to personally experience all 613 mitzvot on the level of chiyuv, by assuming different Jewish roles in each reincarnation, and take as given that Hashem will help and ensure they have all the setting and opportunities they need to do so.

Rabbi Kaii
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    You need a lot of people for hakhel! – magicker72 Mar 06 '23 at 11:45
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    Do we need to count an Amaleki so we can fulfill the mitzva of killing him? Do we need a non jewish woman to be a yefat toar? We're going to need at least two brothers to die, one to leave a wife for yibbum and one for chalitza. Not to mention the kohein gadol needs to marry a betula, a rapist needs to marry the victim, we're going to need an eved ivri to do yiud and ~70 more people to constitute a sanhedrin to mete out death penalties. A team of 4 people would be woefully insufficient. – Double AA Mar 06 '23 at 14:02
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    A Yisrael who was once an eved Ivri, served on Sanhedrin, killed an Amaleki, married an eishet yafet toar, a rape victim and conducted all forms of Yibbum and chalitza would count for one. Also, he went to a Hachel! I'll see if I can phrase the question better later ty, but I do think you are right, 4 is going to be very unlikely. – Rabbi Kaii Mar 06 '23 at 14:07
  • @RabbiKaii Are you asking about how many people to together have participated in all the mitzvot, or are you looking for the minimum community size in which all mitzvot can occur? – magicker72 Mar 06 '23 at 16:03
  • @magicker72 neither. The background of the question sets up the question as a thought experiment - how many gilgulim would one need to go through to have all the opportunities needed fulfil all 613 mitzvot? The question of how many people they'd need to utilise to achieve this is not part of the question. – Rabbi Kaii Mar 06 '23 at 16:06
  • You say 613 not 248 but how do you want to deal with negative commandments whereby anyone can fulfill all of them (sort of https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/133474/759 ) – Double AA Mar 06 '23 at 16:10
  • Does the sister also count? Otherwise we haven't counted the prohibition of lying with your brother – Double AA Mar 06 '23 at 16:20
  • @DoubleAA the sister doesn't count (although clever utilisations like that would be useful) - think in terms of the thought experiment of "trying to prove 4 gilgulim is enough" – Rabbi Kaii Mar 06 '23 at 16:29
  • Can we count the sister and not the brother if that is more helpful? ie are you saying she doesn't count because we're declaring both halves the same thing and can count either or because you mistakenly think his side is somehow more real? – Double AA Mar 06 '23 at 16:42
  • @DoubleAA the sister CAN count, but if, for example, she is only being discussed because of his obligation, then she doesn't count. If she has her own mitzva then we can cleverly kill 2 birds with one stone and include her – Rabbi Kaii Mar 06 '23 at 16:43
  • What do you mean by her own mitzvah and his mitzvah? The prohibition applies equally to both of them – Double AA Mar 06 '23 at 17:00
  • @DoubleAA yes, i thought we were just clarifying hypothetical examples... – Rabbi Kaii Mar 06 '23 at 17:04
  • In the same vein, the Mishna in Makkot 21b tells us how one could break 8 commandments with a simple gesture. – Maurice Mizrahi Mar 06 '23 at 17:42
  • Can I save bodies by sinning? i.e. my son and my daughter have a daughter and I refrain from sleeping with my 1. son's daughter and 2. my daughter's daughter? – Clint Eastwood Mar 03 '24 at 21:55
  • I've tried so hard to make the question clear. Think of it in terms of chiyuv. Perhaps @DoubleAA can delete their comment now so we can move on from the previous confusion? – Rabbi Kaii Mar 03 '24 at 21:57
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    This should be a movie! (Well it's actually closer to reality) A little off track of your question, but in this scenario The Mitzvah Dream Team have to help other actual Gilguilim to fulfill all the Mitzvos for Moshiach to come, but the Yetzer Harah is hell-bent on stopping the mitzvah dream team. – larry909 Mar 05 '24 at 10:09

1 Answers1

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Establish 6 cities of refuge, at least 2 Levite Cities. One Levite city can become an ir hanedachat and we can destroy that.

Each city needs 10 batlanim and shoftim and shotrim (2 judges, 2 officers)

8 * 14 = (112)

We need 7 nations, an Edomite, Moabite, Ammonite, Egyptian, and Amalekite (12) One of these can worship idols and make wine. One non Jewish woman. (1)

We need 1 king, 1 kohen gadol, 1 war kohen, 1 injured kohen who can't serve, 1 kohen's servant (can be one of the goyim ^), 1 kohen's daughter. (6) One of these can be a prophet. Injured kohen can be a leperous, castrated, false prophet.

the kohen gadol and the war kohen can be in different "divisions"

If we need a sanhedrin, we must have 72 people who aren't related to anyone else. (72 - 16 judges from the cities = 54)

To do the incest laws a man will need a father, brother, son, sister, daughter. Son's and daughter's daughter. The 3 male relatives will need wives. But those 3 men can be the batlanim in the cities. (4 women) But the kohen's daugther is mentioned above so (3 women)

1 Jewish slave (1)

Total: 188

Clint Eastwood
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  • Please confirm you read and understood the second last bullet point in the OP – Rabbi Kaii Mar 03 '24 at 22:37
  • I do. I suppose the injured kohen can be an ex-war kohen and the non jewish woman can be one of the incest people's wives. – Clint Eastwood Mar 03 '24 at 22:41
  • I'm not sure I've explained myself properly then. Ever so sorry. According to that, you wouldn't need a Sanherdin, for example. There is no mitzva to sit on a Sanhedrin, just listen to one, so any Israel (alive at the time of a Sanhedrin) is mechuyav, and that's who sits on the Dream Team. – Rabbi Kaii Mar 03 '24 at 22:47
  • If I understand what you're looking for, @RabbiKaii...would it be accurate to say that you're NOT looking for the minimum number of people for Judaism to exist. You're looking for the smallest number of people who can fulfill all mitzvos (given the context of a fully functioning halachic Jewish society). Did I get that right? – MTL Mar 03 '24 at 23:03
  • @MTL yes exactly – Rabbi Kaii Mar 03 '24 at 23:11
  • How about time interactions, like, Destroy all of the seven Canaanite nations - but by now they are all destroyed. So you need one of your people to live within that time period. Appoint a king - don't do that till later. - So if you could come up with enough like that, would you count that as requiring more people, or would you say, No, because even if it worked out that the times didn't overlap, they could have. – MichoelR Mar 04 '24 at 17:29
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    Shorter: Can we point to a time in Jewish history when all 613 mitzvos could be fulfilled right then? – MichoelR Mar 04 '24 at 17:31
  • @MichoelR no given that the question's inspiration is gilgulim, I think we can ignore that. It's a thought experiment, nothing more – Rabbi Kaii Mar 04 '24 at 17:45
  • I meant, say there were 19 mitzvos that can only be done in 19 non-overlapping time periods. Then you would need a minimum of 19 people no matter what. Or not. – MichoelR Mar 04 '24 at 17:56
  • @MichoelR if the connection between the mitzva and the time is accidental, then no. If it is intrinsic, then yes. As far as I know, all mitzvot are in the former category. Thanks for asking, I can see why this is a source of further confusion – Rabbi Kaii Mar 04 '24 at 18:10
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    Not sure how it would fit into your question, but איסור במות is an interesting try. There were times when certain mitzvos didn't apply (completely). - The Rambam talks about the example I gave, destroying the 7 Canaanite nations, saying that it is a mitzvos l'doros even though we finished! – MichoelR Mar 04 '24 at 18:53