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Mahloket Rishonim how many strings should be used in the Techelet.

  • One string (Raavad)
  • Two strings (Rashi, Tosafot, Rosh and Tur)
  • Half string (Rambam)

In a case of an argument like this who would we follow? I also read that Rav Meir Mazuz Shelit"a follows the opinion of the Rambam.

EDIT: what's also interesting is that we would never know for sure because randomly Maran decided to base his Halachot on different sources. For example: Bet Yosef O"H 426 cites the Shaare Orah (Mekubal, Rishon) that holds to wait 7 full days in order to recite Birkat HaLevana.

We will never know...

Hacham Gabriel
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    "In a case of an argument like this who would we follow?" Are you asking about this case, or more generally? – msh210 Jan 09 '12 at 05:36
  • @msh210 wel...I'm 99% sure there are no other cases where we have this exact argument but in general would be what I'm looking for. – Hacham Gabriel Jan 09 '12 at 14:00
  • @HachamGabriel What about all of Kodshim and Tahorot? – Double AA Jan 06 '13 at 00:26
  • Tthe Bet Yosef in 13:1 which is the source of the summary that we call Shulchan Aruch rules like the Tur.

    ודאי התורה אמרה שיש ליתן בכנף שני חוטים לבן ושני חוטים תכלת והלכה למשה מסיני שהתכלת אינו מעכב את הלבן והיה מספיק לנו בשני חוטים לבן אלא שאנו נותנים עוד שני חוטים זכר לתכלת

     – Gershom Menachem Feb 01 '23 at 12:41
  • https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/108717/mishna-berura-ruling-on-tying-tekhelet/108721#108721 – sam Feb 01 '23 at 15:29

2 Answers2

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Kesef Mishne on Rambam (1:6) seems to hold like the Rambam (see Maase Rokeach who to my understand also holds like Rambam). I also believe from Shu"T Hatam Sofer vol. 1 sim. 1 it seems he holds like Rambam. Therefor, the Halacha is like Rambam.

Hacham Gabriel
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  • Your answer is incorrect. The Bet Yosef in 13:1 rules like the Tur, and we know the Shulchan Aruch is just a summary of the Bet Yosef , not of the Kessef Mishne.

    ודאי התורה אמרה שיש ליתן בכנף שני חוטים לבן ושני חוטים תכלת והלכה למשה מסיני שהתכלת אינו מעכב את הלבן והיה מספיק לנו בשני חוטים לבן אלא שאנו נותנים עוד שני חוטים זכר לתכלת

     – Gershom Menachem Feb 01 '23 at 12:32
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    @GershomMenachem That's no ruling, he's just quoting the Rosh and this comes in incidentally. – magicker72 Feb 02 '23 at 11:55
  • I don't think he is quoting the Rosh in this part. He quotes the Rosh much before. He days this a few lines later after he said "yesh omrim" and then says ela vaday .... He is expressing his opinion, I am sorry. – Gershom Menachem Feb 02 '23 at 12:10
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    @GershomMenachem Luckily, you don't need to guess: just read the Rosh inside here, and you'll see that it's a direct quote (it's a long quote). Another clue: Beit Yosef doesn't write עכ״ל until later. (BTW, you need to @ me for me to see that you responded.) – magicker72 Feb 02 '23 at 14:05
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On techelet ratio, there seems to be a clear psak for different groups. This is just a summary of my halachic research and how the final positions trace back to the earliest source available, this is not an exhaustive list.

• Halacha l'maaseh for Ashkenazi

2:2 ratio based on version 1 of Bet Shammai, Rashi & Tosfos on Menachos 38a;Rosh on Menachot, Hilchot Tzitzit 6:1, Tur 11:1, Bet Yosef 13:1, Mordechai (brought in Bet Yosef), Bach 9:2, Taz 13 on Shulchan Aruch 11:12, Prisha 12:6 in the name of the rishon Menorat HaMaor, Shulchan Aruch HaRav 11:1, Mishnah Berurah 9:7, Aruch HaShulchan 9:2 and 11:2, and recommended and worn by R Schachter and R Belsky.

(Ashkenazim have a minority opinion of 1:3 based on version 2 of Bet Shammai, the Raavad based on Natronai Gaon, one of the opinions of the GRA. Discuss with your rabbi if you wish to follow this minority opinion)

• Halacha l'maaseh for Sephardic and Yemenite

1:7 ratio based on Rambam and Sephardic acharonim like the Ben Ish Chai, recommended and worn by R Mazuz.

• Halacha l'maaseh for Mekubal

A bit more complex psak as the Ramak paskened like Tosofos but the Arizal and majority of later kabbalistic sources paskened like the Rambam. Practically speaking, the opinion of the Arizal is followed by all mekubalim as the final authority on all matters.

• Halacha l'maaseh for Chassidim

Chassidim, specially Breslov and Chabad, follow the ruling of the Arizal as final. Nevertheless, some chassidim, based on the Baal HaTanya Shulchan Aruch Harav mentioned above, may wear 2:2 ratio.

A baal nephesh of Chassidic background may want to be yotze of both opinions (Tosofos /Ramak & Rambam/ Arizal) by wearing different ratios in the tallis katan and tallis gadol. In order to justify this approach, see Shulchan Aruch HaRav 25:27 regarding the similar issue of Kabbalah vs Nigle וִירֵא שָׁמַיִם יוֹצֵא אֶת כֻּלָּם, and Minhagei HaChida regarding different mutually exclusive tzitzit tying styles in the tallit katan and the gadol, and he writes: דברים מירא ה׳ וחושבי שמו, נהרא נהרא ופשטיה.

Gershom Menachem
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    Quoting three or four modern rabbis who took positions is hardly "a clear psak for each group". – Double AA Jan 27 '23 at 01:52
  • R Shachter said that the Mishnah Berurah is the posek acharon and he rules like it and recommends to wear Tosofos. Regarding the sefardim, every rabbi I have asked answered the same, Rambam and they say that when sefaradim fo not have a masora on something they rule like the Rambam. The Chassidic and mekuballim is even more clear as the Arizal clearly ruled on the topic. – Gershom Menachem Jan 27 '23 at 01:56
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    That's fine for R Schachter but the facts are not everyone agrees with him. You can't say it's clear psak for ashkanzim when R Schachter and R Belsky don't even agree. – Double AA Jan 27 '23 at 01:57
  • Of course, you could change your minhag but this is something that may require a bit more of discussion with your family and rabbi. I do see many Ashkenazi adopting the Rambam as is cheaper to wear it vs Tosofos, but not sure if cost should be a consideration when deciding between opinions. – Gershom Menachem Jan 27 '23 at 01:58
  • I understand that you may disagree, but the 3 biggest acharonim poskim of the Ashkenazi world MB, AS and SAR all rule the same. It is hard to justify why not to follow the Mishnah Berurah and Aruch HaShulchan. – Gershom Menachem Jan 27 '23 at 02:01
  • That's why I was transparent and I brought up the opinion of Rabbi Belsky and the sources he based on. Apparently, even the GRA said contradictory things about the ratio as someone pointed out to me recently, so I bring it as a minority opinion and ask your rabbi if you may follow it. – Gershom Menachem Jan 27 '23 at 02:03
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    It's fine for you to like R Schacter's arguments. We're not discussing who I agree or disagree with or who you agree with or disagree with. The fact is though that Rabbis disagree so your presenting it like it's a simple matter is misleading. – Double AA Jan 27 '23 at 02:11
  • In any event I don't think this really answers the question which seems to be asking generally how to approach a machloket that the shulchan aruch doesn't address. – Double AA Jan 27 '23 at 02:14
  • I said this was a summary and not exhaustive. 2)Many times we do not even follow the Shulchan Aruch or the Rama, nowadays for issues of Orach Chaim, Ashkenazim follow the Mishna Berura by default unless the is a very big compelling argument why not. I see no such argument for the techelet ratio specially when agreed by the Aruch HaShulchan which R Belsky himself called the posek acharon. R Belsky only worn techelet in his tallit katan so some other haskafic considerations may have played in his decision not to follow the Mishnah Berurah and the Aruch Hashulchan.
    • – Gershom Menachem Jan 27 '23 at 02:23
  • The Rav Belsky part is incorrect, he wore 2 white 2 blue. I know the person who tied his tzitzts. – sam Feb 02 '23 at 04:27
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    Would also point out that a majority of Rishonim hold 2 and 2 ,and I disagree with @DoubleAA understanding that they were just copying and pasting other rishonim . From what I see is that many have 1 blue string by default if they haven't delved into sugya,because 1 string makes most sense from reading the plain passuk of ptil. However, many specifically use 2 and 2 like Tosfos and Rashi ,and there are many who specifically use the Rambams shitta because he is a very authoritative shitta for many(sefardim ,brisker types...) – sam Feb 02 '23 at 04:43
  • @sam Can you give me more details about it? I have been alsways told that he wore like the Vilna Gaon – Gershom Menachem Feb 02 '23 at 11:37
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    He tied like the Chinuch following shiitah of Tosfos . He wanted the 5 knots . – sam Feb 02 '23 at 13:18