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A minyan starts to daven mincha before sheki’a with the intention to daven maariv after sheki’a. In the event, mincha extends beyond shki’a.

There are IMHO three possible cases:

  1. They start but do not finish the quiet shmoneh esrai before shki’a.

  2. They finish the quiet shmoneh esrai but not the repetition.

  3. They finish the repetition but don’t finish the rest of davenning.

Is any of these situations “tartei desasrei” – two contradictory acts?

This question is related to but not identical to When is the earliest time you can Daven Maariv during the week?.

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Avrohom Yitzchok
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1 Answers1

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This answer presumes that the minyan is davening back-to-back because otherwise people may go home and end up not davening maariv. Therefore, I am bringing a psak that not everyone agrees to, but may be applicable under the aforementioned circumstance- CYLOR.

The Aruch haShulchan (OC 110:5) holds that one who starts davening in the proper time is davening "on time" regardless of when he finishes.

He learns this from Tosafos on Brachos 7a. There is a drasha showing G-d's kindness for not getting angry during Bilam's curse. Since G-d's anger is only a split second (see gemara), Tos. asks what Bilam could have accomplished? One of his answers is that he could have started the curse and it would have retained it's potency afterward.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the shatz for mincha who davened the total repetition after sunset, since I recall (not sure where) that the repetition is his actual tefila and his silent one was a rehearsal (established pre-siddurim). So his entire tefilah may have been post-sunset.

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YDK
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  • I think your last idea is echoed somewhere in Igrot Moshe. No source... – Double AA Jan 06 '12 at 04:25
  • Could be, but I seem to remember it from earlier sources as well. – YDK Jan 06 '12 at 04:30
  • @YDK. Thanks for the reference to the Aruch haShulchan (from "havinenu" - well remembered)! Point about the shalich tzibbur is well taken. If anyone can supply a source, I'd be grateful. – Avrohom Yitzchok Jan 06 '12 at 13:21
  • @AvrohomYitzchok, OK, it wasn't on my fingertips, I recalled it from somewhere in the Ah"S, but it took a lot of searching. I'm very determined to find something when I remember it, but then it's not there. I went through havineinu seriously after my Rav's son told me his father used it a few times in the airport. I never asked him the situation, perhaps he was late for boarding and felt it was better that any situation of davening on the plane. – YDK Jan 08 '12 at 15:15
  • I asked my Rav about the case. He referred to the impossibility of being precise with sheki'a and quoted a local highly respected Rav who had issued a lenient ruling with respect to a hefsek taharah in the sheki'a time frame. – Avrohom Yitzchok Jan 11 '12 at 15:24
  • @AvrohomYitzchok, that could be relying on bein hashemashos when the woman had not done a hefsek prior to shkiah (I think R' Moshe gave a prorated 8 or 9 minutes). That would be comparable to asking can one daven mincha after shkiah if he had not done so. Here the case is lechatechila for maariv- is there a tarti desasrei if he davens maariv right away. – YDK Jan 11 '12 at 20:59
  • @YDK Thank you for clarifying that point. The point about the impossibility of being precise with sheki'a, I think, remains. – Avrohom Yitzchok Jan 13 '12 at 09:22
  • related to precision http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/13226/759 – Double AA Sep 16 '13 at 22:40
  • @DoubleAA I believe it can be found In Igros Moshe Chelek 1, where he discusses a case of somebody who generally davens a different Nusach than the Tzzibbur but is now serving as Chazarat Hashatz, & I believe he paskens that he should daven the same teffila as he will be davening during chazarta hashatz even though it is not his nusach. – Cob Tzu Jul 19 '22 at 02:29