0

It is said that there is wisdom in the nations. Chassidus teaches that Jews have more vessel and less light, and non-Jews have less vessel and more light. There seems to be a possible good that comes out of forming friendships with non-Jews. But the general attitude seems to be not to be friends. Barring the prohibition to drink together, shouldn’t Jews socialise and befriend gentiles more? Wouldn’t it be part of darkei shalom?

Harel13
  • 25,676
  • 4
  • 58
  • 136
Yaaqov Yosef
  • 53
  • 3
  • 1
    Chassidus teaches that Jews have more vessel and less light, seems very strange reasoning – kouty Apr 21 '22 at 14:33
  • 1
    Downvoting really shows your encouraging critical thinking and discouraging groupthink. – Yaaqov Yosef Apr 21 '22 at 14:33
  • Go open a book by rebbe Rayatz, Pesach 5702. – Yaaqov Yosef Apr 21 '22 at 14:34
  • I don’t think people have answers to this. And that’s ok – Yaaqov Yosef Apr 21 '22 at 16:53
  • This is way too complex to give a simple answer. It really depends on context. And using kabbalistic terminology doesn't really add anything to your question. – N.T. Apr 21 '22 at 17:38
  • 1
    I think the main reason is that we are afraid Jews will mix too much with the other nations, slowly start to act like them, and forget about their religion. In the past, many Jews who mixed with gentiles would be led to idol worship, and even now there is a similar issue of Jews forgetting their principles. Like N.T. said, this is a complex question; for answers it would be best to have a discussion with a rabbi. – treenuts15 Apr 21 '22 at 19:04

1 Answers1

-1

Your question is quite a mess.

It is said that there is wisdom in the nations.

Yes, but that just means that in general, there is some widsom in non-Jewish knowledge. It doesn't mean you should befriend them. If you are befriending a non-Jew to gain wisdom from them then that is definetly not a good idea.

Chassidus teaches that Jews have more vessel and less light, and non-Jews have less vessel and more light.

I'm no expert in chassidus, maybe it does say that, but what does that have to do with anything?

There seems to be a possible good that comes out of forming friendships with non-Jews. But the general attitude seems to be not to be friends.

Where do you see the possible good? The first part (about non-Jews having wisdom) doesn't mean you should be friends with them... Its just saying that they (non-Jews in general) have some wisdom. The second part about what it supposedly says in chassidus would say that you shouldn't be friends with them... They are more vessel and less light (which, kipshuto, is bad).

Barring the prohibition to drink together, shouldn’t Jews socialise and befriend gentiles more?

You haven't given a reason why we should befriend them. The only semblance of a reason you gave is to get wisdom, but you don't have to be friends with them to do that.

Wouldn’t it be part of darkei shalom?

No... being friends is not part of darchei shalom. There are certain stuff that you have to do because of darchei shalom, but it is a curated list of things, not befriend them.

In conclusion, the reason not to be friends with non-Jews is to stay seperate from them, especially today when so many of them are g-dless immoral degenerates.

Kovy Jacob
  • 565
  • 2
  • 8
  • 1
    Darkehi Shalom is not just a formal set of rules, but is a mentality of how we relate to people as humans. – Double AA Apr 25 '22 at 01:13
  • 1
    @DoubleAA Not at all. In fact, it is generally understood to be because of eiva, not wanting the non-Jews to hate us. Please don't take it out of context to suite your agenda. – Kovy Jacob Apr 25 '22 at 01:19
  • You're the only one taking things out of context if you are pretending Darkei Shalom and Eivah are the same thing. The Gemara and Rambam clearly and consistently use the two terms to describe two different things, each with its own rules and goals. – Double AA Apr 25 '22 at 01:21
  • 1
    @DoubleAA I believe the general understanding is that although eiva and darkei shalom are 2 seperate things, darkei shalom is because of eiva. Also, where did you see darkei shalom is 'mentality of how we relate to people as humans'? Hint: the closest you'll get to that is that darkei shalom is to promote peacefullness, but nobody says its 'mentality of how we relate to people as humans'. – Kovy Jacob Apr 25 '22 at 01:24
  • You can declare what's general all day long and dismiss other views as agendas, but anyone who is curious will easily find the truth. – Double AA Apr 25 '22 at 01:29
  • I didn't quite understand what the problem would be with the Gentiles being degenerate. Judaism itself does not give many details of moral standards by which Gentiles should follow such as promiscuous relationships that are not condemned. I don't see any nation that goes against the 7 Noahide laws, so what else can we do? It's not the Gentiles who are close to the Jews, but the opposite, there are more Jews among the Gentiles than among Jews, so if they can't be friends, what are they doing among us? – Thales Jan 12 '23 at 13:03