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This week, the island of Samoa is switching time zones, causing it to skip from Thursday directly to Saturday. Out of simple curiosity, what implications might this have on any Jews on the island? Since one cannot "jump" into the middle of Shabbat, does that mean all observant Jews would have to leave the island?

ESultanik
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  • there are non any see here and here and here – simchastorah Dec 29 '11 at 05:26
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    ESultanik, welcome to Judaism.SE, and thanks for posting what is clearly a fascinating and popular question! I look forward to seeing you around. – Isaac Moses Dec 29 '11 at 15:45
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    This question is now the highest-voted to date. – Isaac Moses Dec 30 '11 at 03:44
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    @Daniel Unfortunately, I am neither smart enough to devise another question that hasn't already been asked, nor am I knowledgable enough to answer any of those that remain unanswered. I'm still lurking, though! – ESultanik Apr 24 '13 at 13:03
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    @ESultanik good questions (like this one) can arise out of a desire to learn; being smart isn't required. I hope you'll bring your future questions here, at whatever rate they come. – Monica Cellio Dec 06 '16 at 23:13
  • related: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/94336/changing-the-day-of-shabbos – Loewian Jul 31 '18 at 23:50

4 Answers4

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The civil date line doesn't affect the Halachic day with regards to Shabbos.

Where is the location date line is subject to Halachic argument

According to the Chazon Ish, the Halachic dateline hugs the coast of Australia, China and Russia. Anything to the east (Japan, etc) is considered to be on the same day as the United States. Therefore, it's Shabbos in Japan on their Sunday.

Samoa used to have Shabbos on Saturday (like Hawaii). Now it will be pushed off a day (to be like) Japan and have it on Sunday.

According to R' Tukachinsky, the halachic date line is between Hawaii and California. Therefore, Hawaii is on the Japanese side and Shabbos is on their Friday.

Samoa used to have Shabbos on Friday (like Hawaii). Now it will be pushed off a day to Saturday.

There are other opinions that it runs straight through the middle of the Pacific, though there are arguments of exactly where does it run.

ertert3terte
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    Then there's also the opinion of R. M.M. Kasher (described here), that there is no date line - each place just follows the direction from which its earliest Shabbos-observant settlers came. In that case, then, its Shabbos would presumably continue to be at the same time as that of the U.S. (i.e., its new Sunday). – Alex Dec 29 '11 at 05:31
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    I don't have a citation readily available, but many American poskim allow Jews to visit Hawaii and keep Fri night / Sat night as shabbos. A minority suggest that Jews should not do melacha d'oraisa from Thurs night to Fri night on the islands of Aloha. Ditto Japan, not doing melacha d'oraisa from Sat night to Sun night. –  Dec 29 '11 at 17:43
  • If Shabbat is every seven days ragardless of what we call those days, then what does it mean to have a halachic dateline at all? Is that just for purposes of deciding when Shabbat is in a place where no Jews live (but a Jew wants to go there now)? Should this be a followup question? – Monica Cellio Dec 29 '11 at 18:03
  • @Alex if the first Jews to arrive at an island in the middle of the Atlantic are from Japan, they keep Japan's Shabbos? This is getting very confusing. – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 18:18
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    BTW, I heard that when Mir was in Japan during WW2, they kept Shabbos and Yom Kippur for two days (one Halachically and one Lechumra). Lubavitch IIRC, kept Shabbbos on Saturday like the latter two opinions. – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 18:21
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    @Alex Samoa's earliest settlers kept Shabbat like Australia. It was switched to USA in 1892. see http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/idl/idl_alaska.htm – Double AA Dec 29 '11 at 19:09
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    Nice answer and all... but nobody in Japan keeps Shabbat on Sunday, and nobody in HAwaii keeps Shabbat on Friday. – avi Dec 29 '11 at 19:25
  • @avi I guess because people that paskin like the Chazon Ish don't live in Japan, and it could be that the shluchim in Hawaii don't paskin like R' Tukachinksy either. However, as mentioned above, when Mir was in WW2 in Japan (before moving to Shanghai), they asked their poskim as to when to keep Shabbos, and they had to keep two days of Shabbos, Yom Kippur, etc. – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 19:35
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    @Alex I think you should include RMMK's opinion in a separate answer. – Double AA Dec 29 '11 at 20:37
  • @ShmuelBrill: I understand RMMK's opinion to be that in that case, Shabbos for that island is established as being the same as Japan, and it stays that way even if afterwards Jews come there from America or Europe or whatever. (The information that DoubleAA mentioned, about Samoa having originally been like Australia in this regard, seems to be talking about what non-Jews decided. I'm not clear, from the description of RMMK's view, whether for him the deciding factor is what was established by the first gentiles to import the concept of a week, or where the first Jewish inhabitants come from. – Alex Dec 29 '11 at 22:08
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    @MonicaCellio, any provision for following the existing Jewish community (assuming one exists) won't help, as you indicate, where there's no such community, including on the high seas. If you start somewhere on the Equator and start, on Friday afternoon, flying a plane due West at about 1000 mph, you can have a neck-n-neck race with the setting sun forever and think that it's still Friday afternoon the whole time, unless you know at what line you have to switch into Shabbat. – Isaac Moses Dec 29 '11 at 23:07
  • @Alex I still don't understand. According to R' Kasher, if an American Jew was the first human to discover a small island just off Japan, while a Chinese Jew was to discover a small island off California, does that mean that the island off California would be on China's side of the date line, while the island off Japan would be on the American side? – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 23:22
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    @ShmuelBrill: pretty much. The Hebrew article I linked to above (first comment) says: ייתכן בהחלט ששתי ספינות ייפגשו באותו מקום בלב האוקיינוס, אך נוסעי כל אחת מהספינות ישמרו את השבת ביום אחר - "it is entirely possible that two ships would meet at the same point in the middle of the ocean, but the passengers on each ship would observe Shabbos on different days." (Again, of course, this is only according to R. Kasher.) – Alex Dec 29 '11 at 23:54
  • @avi, as a matter of practice, while each ruling does not depend on the legal International Date Line, which ruling is accepted tends to. IOW, I expect that the typical Samoan observant Jew drifted from holding like the Chazon Ish to holding like R Yechiel Mikhl Tukaczinski. – Micha Berger Mar 16 '17 at 13:31
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The question of where the Halachic International Dateline is is its own independent question. The decision in Samoa would only matter if we left date-line issues to governmental/secular authorities, which is not the case. The day to keep Shabbos in Samoa would be seven days from the last time it was to be kept, according to which ever opinion we should/do go by.

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Yirmeyahu
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  • But what if Shabbath has never been kept there (or has not been kept there since whatever year the last Jew to ever dwell/visit there left)? Do we go by that person, or do we go by what Samoa decides for itself? What if, perhaps, all this time it was in the wrong time zone and now it's moving into the correct one (from the perspective of Halachah)? – Seth J Dec 29 '11 at 17:36
  • My point was that whatever the halachic process used to determine the date of Shabbos for the "week before", whether in theory or in practice, remains unchanged by an arbitrary change by the the govn. There may be different opinions about which day that is, but seven days later would constitute Shabbos according to which ever opinion. – Yirmeyahu Dec 30 '11 at 04:31
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It seems The Star K picked up on the question: How to Keep This Shabbos in Samoa? STAR-K Tells Us How (Samoa & Tokelau To Cross International Date Line)

simchastorah
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  • This Shabbath matters, of course, but I think the question was also about long-term implications. – Seth J Dec 30 '11 at 05:04
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    The short answer (my summary of this article) is that since "According to almost all opinions, the Halachic Dateline is not determined by what the locals call 'Saturday,'" Shabbat the week of the time change (shabbat B) will start exactly 7 days after the start of the previous shabbat (shabbat A), and shabbat the week after the time change (shabbat C) will start exact exactly 7 days after the start of shabbat B. There's longstanding complication caused by the fact that the Chazon Ish and R' Tukachinsky disagree about what day Shabbat is to begin with, but this new change doesn't affect that. – Chanoch May 13 '12 at 14:49
  • There should be mention of the questions of Japan and New Zealand, the cases behind the rulings Chanoch mentions. – Micha Berger Feb 17 '16 at 16:56
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I think that there is no reason to assume that the change in Samoa would affect the Hebrew date. Since, for example, the fifteenth of Ader is Shabbat all over the world, it should be Shabbat in Samoa also, no matter what day of the week the Samoans call it.

Danny Schoemann
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Yosef N.
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    How do you know it's still the 15th of Ader? – Double AA Feb 17 '16 at 06:00
  • Yosef, welcome to Mi Yodeya, and thanks for this answer! I hope you'll look around and find other Q&A of interest and stay learning with us. If you haven’t done so already, you should take a look at the tour. Also MiYodeya emphasizes sources - since we don't know you, how else would we know that what you wrote is true? Maybe you could edit your answer to better explain how you got to this answer – mbloch Feb 17 '16 at 08:18
  • This does not give sources or reasons. – sabbahillel Feb 17 '16 at 10:21