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As far as I understand, piyyutim (poetic additions to/replacements for certain brachot in public prayer) are optional/only a minhag, and that omitting all of them wouldn't be a problem.

On the other hand, Rabbi Hershel Schachter mentioned in a recent video (here, from 1:10) that the Seder HaAvodah (a piyyut describing the day's proceedings in the Temple — or rather, one of many different such piyyutim) in musaf of Yom Kippur is required, "midina degemara" (by Talmudic law). I know that the Seder HaAvodah was said during the time of the gemara (Yoma 36b, 56b; it wasn't in poetry then), but I don't see where it's described as required. Indeed, there are communities who don't say the Seder HaAvodah during the repetition, but instead say it afterward (although I know of no current community that omits it entirely, but ShimonS points out that Rambam and the old Aleppo rite omit it).

One possible source: Rav Amram Gaon describes the Seder HaAvodah here as חובת היום (requirement of the day), but I think he's actually talking about the sprinklings and viduy, which are the requirements of Yom Kippur in the temple, and not the telling of the Seder in the musaf repetition. In any case, I wouldn't call Rav Amram Gaon's requiring this piyyut as being midina degemara, so I'm interesting in other (earlier) sources.

Is it really required, whether midina degemara or otherwise? If it is, what is the status of a "musaf service" that omits the Seder HaAvodah (both from the musaf repetition and afterward)? If it isn't, is there a strong a priori preference for including it, or can one omit it intentionally?

magicker72
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  • Which communities only recite it after the repetition? – Joel K Jul 12 '20 at 06:37
  • @JoelK Baladi Teimanim, for example. Probably some other communities who usually remove piyyutim from the repetitions, but I don't know for sure. – magicker72 Jul 12 '20 at 07:31
  • Interesting, thanks. I know that followers of the Gra who do normally remove piyyutim still say the Avodah (and many of the other piyyutim of RH and YK) during the repetition. – Joel K Jul 12 '20 at 07:49
  • Even if it's required, you can probably come up with something shorter than the standard piyut for shaas hadechak – Heshy Jul 12 '20 at 09:40
  • How could it be required in the repetition and not the silent version? (Not that you couldn't say it in the silent version too, just that's certainly not commonly practiced.) – Double AA Jul 12 '20 at 10:02
  • @DoubleAA We have such things: kedusha and birkat kohanim. – magicker72 Jul 12 '20 at 14:50
  • @magicker does seder hayom need a minyan to answer? It's straight musaf content not a separate mitzva put into the context of public prayer – Double AA Jul 12 '20 at 15:14
  • @DoubleAA Not that I believe this, but: maybe it does? – magicker72 Jul 12 '20 at 16:41
  • Seder HaAvodah is not mentioned by the Rambam, neither in Halachot nor in Seder HaTefila. 2. It is missing in Machzor Aram Tzovah (Aleppo) and the community did not say it for centuries until they accepted Spanish customs. 3. The paytanim felt free to make their own versions, which was not the case with obligatory parts of the tefilah.
    • – user17743 Jul 13 '20 at 15:30
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    @Shimon 3 is not correct – Double AA Jul 13 '20 at 15:41
  • @ShimonS Thanks for pointing out Aleppo. As DoubleAA mentions, #3 is wrong: plenty of piyyutim entirely replace the obligatory parts of prayers (in fact, that was their original function). – magicker72 Jul 13 '20 at 16:44
  • Plenty paytanim indeed did so, for example Yose ben Yose for Mussaf of RH. But not all of them. For Seder HaAvodah this seems to go across the spectrum. See: https://www.amazon.com/Avodah-Ancient-Library-Literature-English/ – user17743 Jul 13 '20 at 16:48
  • @ShimonS What does "across the spectrum" mean here? – magicker72 Jul 13 '20 at 16:55
  • I mean from early EY paytanim (who were indeed very flexible) to Meshulam ben Kalonymus (in Italy/Ashkenaz) or Ibn Ezra (in Spain, where they were not very flexible with changing the obligatory parts). Even the Maharitz in Yemen didn't feel the need to defend the old piyut they used and accepted the change to the one used in Spanish machzorim (granted, in Yemen they said it after the chazara so it doesn't really matter). – user17743 Jul 13 '20 at 17:05
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    It should be also noted that Rav Schachter follows here the approach of Rav Soloveitchik who sees Seder HaAvodah as part of Tefilas HaTzibur (as per Rav Chaim Brisker's understanding of chazaras hashatz) and therefore requires the shatz to say every word of the Avodah out loud (See Halachic Positions and Machzor YK Mesoras HaRav). I have not seen this approach by other poskim. – user17743 Jul 13 '20 at 18:13
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    @ShimonS what is the point of a chazzan saying anything quietly? I don't understand. Everything he says is for the tzibbur. Maybe there are poskim who justify after the fact a chazzan who said something quietly, but surely that's just bedieved. I can't think of anything the chazzan should lechatchila say quietly. Either say it aloud or skip it. – Double AA Jul 13 '20 at 18:41
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    I'm not talking from a halachic point of view but it is certainly the common practice in most Ashkenazi shuls that things that are also said by the tzibur (such as Selichos, or Brachos of Shma and Shma) are said by the Shatz rather quietly. It seems to me that saying parts of the Avodah quietly is the practice of vast majority of Ashkenazi minyanim. The Rabbis there do not protest (and most of the people are learning or reading something anyway). – user17743 Jul 13 '20 at 19:43
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    @ShimonS At the end of the day, it seems you agree that some paytanim wrote piyyutim to replace obligatory parts of prayer. Thus, you cannot argue that since the seder ha'avodah is a piyyut, it cannot be obligatory. – magicker72 Jul 13 '20 at 21:20