4

If a Jew who doesn’t keep kosher eats a meal (like non-kosher beef), is it permissible, forbidden or necessary to say some sort of brachot before and after eating?

My initial guess would be no since it’s taref but then again I feel one should be thankful for the sustenance even if it is non-kosher. I searched the site for this type of question but it didn’t quite come up. Maybe the answer is too obvious? Evidently not for me.

Authoritative sources are especially appreciated. Thanks.

Edit: The site advices me to explain why I would like my question open or not deleted or however it may be, in light of the suggested possible duplicates, but it is in fact based on the answers here that I’m more comfortable with this post, as I explain in the comments, while I thank the references to similar posts that I was not able to find before asking the question.

najliel
  • 55
  • 4

3 Answers3

5

Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 196:1 says that you shouldn't:

אבל [צ"ל אכל] דבר איסור אף על פי שאינו אלא מדרבנן אין מזמנין עליו ואין מברכין עליו לא בתחלה ולא בסוף:

One who ate a forbidden food, even if it's forbidden only Rabbinically, cannot be included in a mezuman [a quorum for Grace After Meals], and does not recite a blessing before or after eating it.

(unless, as it goes on to say in the next paragraph, he's eating it because otherwise his life would be in danger).

This represents the opinion of the Rambam (Hil. Brachos 1:19). Raavad there disagrees, although the Taz (on Shulchan Aruch ibid.) argues that even the Raavad would agree that no blessing should be said if the person is eating it knowingly.

That said, this blog post suggests that nowadays, when most Jews who eat non-kosher food simply don't know (yet) that it's wrong to do so, perhaps they should say a bracha for it (he suggests saying it in English in that case). For practical halacha, of course, CYLOR.

Meir
  • 9,176
  • 19
  • 38
2

Keep in mind that there are several different categories of non-kosher food. Something like non-kosher beef is a real problem. Similarly, Chometz on Pesach, Yayin Nesech (wine used in idol worship) and meat with milk.

On the other hand, food that is not certified as kosher may indeed be kosher or non-kosher in a (relatively) minor way. If you eat non-kosher beef it would be, as stated in other answers, likely considered wrong to say a Bracha on it under most circumstances. But if you drink something nominally kosher - for example, fruit juice that is not certified kosher but which is likely to be kosher, it may be appropriate to make a Bracha on the juice.

To put it another way, the question may have two parts:

  • Definitively non-kosher/forbidden food (e.g., non-kosher beef (non-Shechitah, or from forbidden parts of the animal or not soaked/salted))
  • Not certified kosher (and not "default kosher" like water, fresh fruits & vegetables, etc.) but not inherently non-kosher
manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact
  • 455
  • 2
  • 8
  • 1
    Great answer, but actual yayin nesech is pretty hard to come by these days, particularly in the home of even the least observant Jew. Stam yayin, the regular wine made by non-Jews and almost certainly not poured out to idols at the winery prior to bottling, is the real concern in our times – יהושע ק Jul 02 '20 at 15:04
  • @JoshK I am 100% of aware of that, and chose my words carefully, because my understanding is that Stam Yayin is not such a strict prohibition, and therefore is possible (but I don't have time to do the research right now) to be in the "maybe you could/should make a Bracha" category. I actually picked fruit juice partly as a connection to that - e.g., if you have a mixed fruit juice where grape juice is not a prime ingredient but is possibly a minor ingredient (and in such cases certainly Stam not Nesech) then kosher certification is normally required, but might fall into the – manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact Jul 02 '20 at 15:18
  • "maybe good enough" category such that a Bracha would be proper. As opposed to "100%" apple juice or orange juice where there are opinions that (at least in some parts of the world) no hechsher would be needed - and obviously then a Bracha would be required. – manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact Jul 02 '20 at 15:19
  • 1
    -1 You seem to suggest that Safek Kosher may require a Beracha Misafek. That's a very strong claim you've got to back up, and you don't have any sources there. Without any sources, I would assume it's incorrect, as generally we say Safek Berachos Lehakail and we wouldn't say a Bracha. And probably wouldn't eat the food either, since I can't imagine Safek Kosher would be allowed in most situations. – Salmononius2 Jul 02 '20 at 17:12
  • Granted that stam yeinam is a lesser prohibition than yayin nesech, it's still clearly forbidden Rabbinically, and so the rule I mentioned in my answer would still apply to it. Any "maybe"s aren't based on its lesser status vis-a-vis yayin nesech, but on the more general question (Rambam vs. Raavad) of whether you make a bracha on forbidden food at all. – Meir Jul 02 '20 at 17:56
  • 1
    What if you honestly don't know whether the food is kosher or not, but eat it anyway? Bracha or not? – Maurice Mizrahi Jul 02 '20 at 18:12
  • I guess my point is when it is really a safek of safek, etc. For example, as I understand it, in Soviet Russia there was almost no certified kosher food, but some of the ordinary commercially baked bread was eaten as kosher, because it was a (relatively) consistently produced item with known ingredients. That is not something we would normally do in the US today - every issue of additives and oils and milchig equipment etc. come into play so that most (as far as I know, certainly in my area) frum people would not even consider commercially baked bread without a hechsher. – manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact Jul 02 '20 at 20:47
  • @manassehkatz interesting reasoing. I am not, however, aware of a single Orthodox Jewish authority allowing stam yayin, whether as fermented wine or as grape juice. Perhaps either (as derabannan rather than dorayta probitions) could be nullified as 1/60 volume (as we see in the case of sherry-cask aged whisky). But "not such a strict prohibition"? Sorry, not the case unless you chas v'shalom bump down to Conservative Judaisim – יהושע ק Jul 03 '20 at 00:45
  • @JoshK I am absolutely not suggesting that Stam Yayin is permitted. I am suggesting that maybe in a situation such as (one example drawing from the earlier comments): where you have (a) need to drink but it isn't Pikuach Nefesh (because if it was, there wouldn't be much question), (b) have nothing to drink but a "fruit juice mixture" with no hechsher (not even a 'K'), (c) there are no obvious problems (no grape anything listed), (d) there is a possibility of something snuck is as "flavoring" that could be a problem that maybe a Bracha would be valid if you're going to drink anyway. – manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact Jul 03 '20 at 00:55
  • 1
    @manassekhatz it sounds like here you're asking about a product which is probably kosher but not kosher certified. Whether or not so say a bracha then will depend on the person, time, and place (a 12th-century French Jew would not have shehakol over cholov stam, a 21st Century Panamanian Jew will teach his children to do so as they have no access to other milk. As relates to your juice example specifically, check out my answer to this question: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/99290/may-a-jew-drink-a-fruit-drink-that-has-less-than-1-60-of-grape-juice?r=SearchResults – יהושע ק Jul 03 '20 at 01:54
  • 1
    Or rather "probably kosher enough". Your linked answer is right on target. I see you got slammed for it - I +1 but you're still negative :-( I would say though that it isn't that such juice (< 1/60 known Stam Yayin grape juice) is truly kosher, but rather that it isn't really-out-there-treif. In fact, my premise is more that if you don't know (just "natural flavors" as a minor ingredient) that it would be more likely to fall into the "hopefully it is kosher, maybe it isn't, I need to drink something" mode and make a Brachah and drink. – manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact Jul 03 '20 at 02:34
1

No. The Shulchan Aruch, Orach Hayyim 196:1, says:

If one ate a forbidden item (even it is forbidden only by the sages), one cannot make a zimun on it or say a blessing on it, neither before or after it.

Maurice Mizrahi
  • 21,770
  • 3
  • 15
  • 57