"No before and after in Torah"?

Question

Chronological difficulties are frequently explained in the Sources by the concept of אין מוקדם ומאוחר בתורה -- Ein Mukdam U'm'uchar Ba'Torah -- There is no before and after in Torah.

(1) Where is the original expression of this concept? You'll find it in various places (Mechilta de Rabbi Yishmael 15:9, Sifrei_Bamidbar 64:1, Ruth_Rabbah 4:5), but where is the first? Is it used or at least mentioned in the Talmud ?

(2) What does it really mean? That the creation of the world might have happened after the Exodus from Egypt? That Jacob was born before Abraham? That Moses died before he was born? Surely not. So what are the limits of this concept?

Why do you say there are limits? Perhaps the principle doesn't preclude the possibility of the creation of the world occurring after the exodus and the only reason we know it didn't happen that way is through (obvious) logical reasoning. — Daniel, Dec 02 '19 at 17:29
How could someone find a source earlier than Mekhilta or Sifrei? What do you mean "where is the first"? Please edit your question to clarify. — Double AA, Dec 02 '19 at 17:31
There's no doubt the principle exists at least sometimes. Numbers 1:1 happens in year 2 month 2, while Numbers 9:1 happens in year 2 month 1. — Double AA, Dec 02 '19 at 17:32
some sources that may help you (or another poster) find answers: Wikipedia (English, also available in Hebrew), Wikisheva and Daat. — MTL, Dec 02 '19 at 18:16

score 1 · Answer 1 · answered Dec 03 '19 at 15:56

In Pesachim 6b, the Talmud discusses this principle and lays limits on it:

Rav Menashiya bar Taḥlifa said in the name of Rav… There is no earlier and later in the Torah. Rav Pappa said: This principle applies only when the Torah deals with two separate matters, but within one matter, that which is written earlier occurred earlier, and that which is written later occurred later…

More elaboration follows. Also, it appears that Mechilta de Rabbi Yishmael 15:9 is the earliest reference to this principle.

According to this explanation, how do you understand Shemos 4:20 ? It's one matter, and rashi there explains אין מוקדם... — larry909, Jan 19 '20 at 04:13

score 0 · Answer 2 · answered Jan 02 '20 at 18:54

While mentioned several Times in the Jerusalem Talmud, this example in Megillah demonstrates the principle in a broader sense. This directly precedes the famous Talmudic statement in Chapter 1 (5) that the books of the Prophets will be obsolete in the days of the future.

רב ור' חנינה ור' יונתן ובר קפרא ור' יהושע בן לוי אמרו המגילה הזאת נאמרה למשה מסיני אלא שאין מוקדם ומאוחר בתורה

larry909 · Answer 3 · 2020-01-19T22:54:44.457

הפרשיות מסודרות לפי סדר כרונולוגי של הנושאים שלהן , אך כל פרשיה מתפרשת על-פני זמן רב, ויש חפיפה בין הזמנים; לכן, ייתכן שבפרשיה מאוחרת ייזכרו פרטים, שקרו לפני סיום הפרשיה המוקדמת יותר.

The Parshiot are arranged in chronological order according to each narrative. But in each individual narrative, the time periods can be spread out over a long period of time, and something that happened at an earlier time can be mentioned later on.

Source: wikisource

"No before and after in Torah"?

3 Answers3