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Do religious rituals bear effect in other countries like America, UK, mleccha deshas? Do vedic rites like sandhya-vandana, tarpana, shraddha give phala in countries other than India (Bharata varsha / karma bhoomi / punya bhoomi) ?

I have heard from elders that they do not yield the same results, at least in Kali Yuga. See discussion by Kanchi Periyavar

But also heard that if someone is living abroad, they should not stop doing these rituals, so that the vasanas/samskaras will stay alive in our minds, so that when they do visit / return to India, those vasanas will compel them to perform the rituals here and gain results. Basically, not to lose touch with our duties and for peace of mind of having done it.

But, there is also fear of unwanted results e.g. doing Gayatri Japa at night gives shakthi to Asuras instead of Devas..
So, should we specifically avoid vedic karmas in foreign lands for fear of adverse results ?

ram
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  • Related answer: https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/29571/if-rituals-are-performed-imperfectly-then-do-they-have-effect – subash rajaa Jan 08 '19 at 05:32
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    They work. See this video https://youtu.be/L2KWaNdeYj8 – The Destroyer Jan 08 '19 at 06:04
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  • Isn't this a duplicate of: https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/15539/what-do-scriptures-say-about-doing-puja-archanas-in-mleccha-deshas/15542#15542 ? – Rickross Jan 08 '19 at 10:08
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    In all divpas (island) god is there sapthadvipa nivashinam karma bhoomi means its like in home there are several places you can pray to god. but you would have designated one place to perform pooja.. i.e. pooja room.. Bharata Varsha(pooja room) but karma performed in any place is still valid.. please perform according to your capacity don't leave – Prasanna R Jan 08 '19 at 13:30
  • @TheDestroyer, i don't think we are allowed to use that video as pramaanam. – ram Jan 09 '19 at 01:45
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    @TriyugiNarayanMani, so your answer is No. I thought I saw another comment which linked to a post which said Yes, trying to find that and compare sources. – ram Jan 09 '19 at 01:46
  • Yes, Manu Smriti says no. – Triyugi Narayan Mani Jan 09 '19 at 04:57
  • @ram Yes. That is not Pramanam. But still we can see Yajanas working if they are done as per rules laid down in Sastras. More importantly, there is no one opinion of Mlecha bhumis. – The Destroyer Jan 09 '19 at 05:38
  • I think the place of yajna does not matter because in our scriptures Vishnu is called as Yajna Purusha and he is all pervading. Besides the effect of yajnas is univarsal i.e. not restricted to particular territory as the teaching of the vedas is "Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma" . Trying to find Find some ref. of above from scriptures and i think we will get the answer . Lets hope. – SwiftPushkar Jan 09 '19 at 08:49
  • @SwiftPushkar, the effect may be universal, but the rules/restrictions may not. i don't think we can use the 'all-pervading' clause if we want 'specific' results e.g. if want rain on my land, then i have to follow rain-yagna rules.. i can't do gayatri japam, and say krishna pervades gayatri japa and then ask for rain. – ram Jan 09 '19 at 13:01
  • @Rickross, while the spirit looks same, the question is worded differently, and people searching on internet are more likely to use terms karma , foreign, us, uk etc. also added another question about avoiding these rituals in foreign countries – ram Jan 10 '19 at 02:12
  • There were no foreign countries when these Nitya karmas were made and Vedas were revealed. If no one goes to foreign countries, no one does Vedic rituals like Yajnas, nitya karmas like Sandhyavandanam, how does the Vedic religion spread and how will the ignorant know about the true religion (considering our religion as the greatest one which wishes welfare of all the beings irrespective of caste, creed, species)? We should not leave our duty of performing karmas wherever we are. Sankalpa should be changed according to place. – Sarvabhouma Jan 10 '19 at 04:50
  • @Sarvabhouma, why is spreading of Vedic religion a goal ? Yes, ours has answers for all questions, but many people don't have these questions, and they will actively revolt against our answers. They can have other smaller religions according to their traits, and as they progress spiritually, take birth in Bharata for the last few legs of their journey in samsara. I've given link that says it's not effective, it doesn't mean we can leave it unless shastras explicitly say 'do not do'. – ram Jan 10 '19 at 05:25
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    I disagree with this nonsensical premise that Vedic/Hindu rituals are exclusive to India. The whole earth is Mata Bhumi and therefore it is acceptable to practice Vedic rituals anywhere on it. – Vyper Jan 13 '19 at 02:08
  • Btw, where did you hear this: "But, there is also fear of unwanted results e.g. doing Gayatri Japa at night gives shakthi to Asuras instead of Devas.." ? I would like to know where you heard that. – Ikshvaku Jan 13 '19 at 17:35

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Many contemporary Acharyas say that Yajnas don't yield fruits overseas, or they say that Yajnas only yield fruits for the first generation of Indians living overseas, but that it's recommended to do Vedic yajnas in India.

The Manusmriti supports this notion:

But the region where the spotted deer roams by nature is to be known as the ‘land fit for sacrificial acts’; beyond that is the ‘land of the Mlecchas.’ (23)

The "region where the spotted deer roams" refers to the Indian subcontinent, and this is the deer that it's referring to.

Verses from other Dharma Shastras:

Vyāsa, 1.3.—‘The Vedic dharma can prevail only in that country over which the black deer roams naturally.’

Samvarta, 4.—‘That country where the black deer constantly roams at will is to be known as Dharma-deśa, where alone the duties of the twice-born can be performed.’

The reason why it says to live in lands that have this type of deer is because the spotted deer's hide is a very important material used in many Yajnas, and since foreign lands don't have this type of deer, then you can't conduct Yajnas there because you would have no hides.

But what if you introduce this species of deer to foreign lands or export or ship spotted deer hides to foreign lands?

This is prohibited by stating that the spotted deer should roam naturally in those lands; or in other words, lands in which the spotted deer is indigenous.

But why should I live in India even if I don't plan on doing Yajnas with deerskin?

Because there are other reasons like Indian soil being more sanctified and pure on account of Rishis having lived there, there being lots of Dvijas, Kshatriyas to protect Yajnas, kings who can defend Dharma, Brahmanas who can teach Dharma and the Vedas, and the holy rivers like the Ganga, Yamuna, and the Kaveri, etc.

Manusmriti:

All men on the earth may learn their respective duties from the Brāhmaṇas born in these countries. (20)

Thus, the Manusmriti says that Dvijas should not even leave India:

The twice-born people should seek to resort to these countries; the Śūdra may however, when distressed for a living, reside in any land.—(24).

And other Dharma Shastras even prescribe expiatory penances for travelling to foreign lands, implying that leaving India is actually a sin:

Baudhāyana, 1-30.—‘Āraṭṭa, Kāraskara, Puṇḍraka, Sauvīra, Baṅga, Kaliṅga, Prāsūna,—if one goes to those countries, he should perform the expiatory rite of either Punaḥstoma or Sarvapṛṣṭhā.

But I think there's good reason to think that these prohibitions of travel are purely for historic reasons, because people living in those lands were sinful, didn't follow Dharma, or were Mlecchas.

It's not recommended to live in Mleccha lands because the migrants and their descendants might actually become Mlecchas, as a Manusmriti commentator correctly points out:

The śūdra may go and live in another country, where there may be a chance for him to acquire wealth. But even so he should never live in a country where mlecchas form the majority of inhabitants; he should betake himself to a land fit for sacrifices; because if he lived in a country abounding in mlecchas it would be impossible for him to avoid their contact, in the course of moving, sitting, eating and so fourth; so that there would be the fear of his becoming a mleccha.

And we even see that 1st and 2nd generation Brahmins who migrate to Western countries become like Mlecchas by partaking in their culture of drinking, premarital sex, meat eating, marrying Mlecchas, etc.

Ikshvaku
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  • "The śūdra may go and live in another country, where there may be a chance for him to acquire wealth." How can commentary on Manusmriti says this when Manusmriti clearly prohibits a Shudra from having money? Read Manu 10.129 – Spark Sunshine Jan 10 '19 at 03:56
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    @NaveenKick That verse prohibits Shudras from hoarding wealth; as in storing it up over time to make a profit, which is something Vaishyas are supposed to do. Shudras can definitely acquire enough money to sustain themselves, and a little extra as security, and own a small home. But they can't own large plots of land, and have giant estates like Vaishyas can. But if a shudra can't even make enough to sustain himself, he can go overseas. This I have personally heard from the shishyas of the 33rd Parakala Matham Jeeyar. – Ikshvaku Jan 10 '19 at 04:14
  • Whose commentary you are referring to in your answer? – Spark Sunshine Jan 10 '19 at 04:20
  • @NaveenKick Medhatithi's. – Ikshvaku Jan 10 '19 at 04:20
  • Where Medhatithi said this? Because read his commentary on 10.129 – Spark Sunshine Jan 10 '19 at 04:23
  • @NaveenKick Medhatithi has said that in his commentary for verse 2.24. His commentary for 10.29 prohibits Shudras from amassing wealth and becoming very rich; but Shudras can earn enough to sustain themselves, which is what the shishyas of the 33rd Parakala Matham Jeeyar also said. – Ikshvaku Jan 10 '19 at 04:29
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    @Ikshvaku, part of one of the prayaschittas for overseas travel, is to have samudra-snanam , change of upaveetam, upon return to India, which is practical do-able in current day 2019. – ram Jan 10 '19 at 07:00
  • Can you answer this question? https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/19095/duty-of-a-shudra?r=SearchResults – Spark Sunshine Jan 12 '19 at 06:16
  • @NaveenKick I think Keshav Srinivasan did a good job at answering that question. – Ikshvaku Jan 12 '19 at 20:35
  • As a proud Hindu, who is not from India, I disagree. The whole earth is Mata Bhumi. If the ancient Sages were alive today and saw the current state of India, they would refer it to as a land of Mlecchas. In fact, I think that some Hindu scriptures such as the Bhagavata Purana mention how India will be a land of Anaryans (non-Aryans/non-noble) people and how Aryans will be found outside of it in this dark age of Kali Yuga. I have met many non-Indian Hindus who were more knowledgeable about Hinduism and more devoted than Hindus from India. – Vyper Jan 13 '19 at 02:02
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    @Viper91 Yes, you're right, India has become land of Mlecchas, but that's mostly due to Muslim and British influence; aka appropriating Mleccha cultures. – Ikshvaku Jan 13 '19 at 02:10
  • @Ikshvaku Any why do you think the Mughals and the British were successful, for the most part, in conquering India in the first place? Do you think Lord Vishnu/Brahman is ever unfair? – Vyper Jan 13 '19 at 02:16
  • @Viper91 Because Kali Yuga is the reign of Mlecchas. Bhagavatam says Mlecchas will conquer India and turn India into a Mleccha country, as well as rule the world. – Ikshvaku Jan 13 '19 at 02:37
  • @Ikshvaku Yes, but it's not only the mlecchas, but also because of the corrupt Brahmins. If you study the history of India, you'll realize that the many of problems Indians face today are due to the corrupt Brahmins. It's all part of the Kali Yuga. – Vyper Jan 13 '19 at 04:59
  • "But the region where the spotted deer roams by nature is to be known as the ‘land fit for sacrificial acts’; beyond that is the ‘land of the Mlecchas" Then what about Indonesia? – Spark Sunshine Jan 13 '19 at 05:15
  • I think that asuras are making Indians fall into christianity or islam, while terrifying yog practicioners of Europe who follow Hindu way of life and do loves the Devas. –  Jan 09 '21 at 05:44