Why wasn't Harry Kim promoted beyond ensign, when others like Tom Paris were multiple times?

Question

I read this question, but it's not the same as mine: Why is Harry Kim senior staff?

JANEWAY: You've been in command on Voyager before.

KIM: On the night shift, for a few hours. It's not the same thing. You and Chakotay are always a couple of decks away, ready to take over if anything goes wrong. I've been on Voyager for almost seven years and I'm still an Ensign.

JANEWAY: If this is your way of bucking for a promotion

KIM: No, no, I understand there's a command structure and that our circumstances are unique. But the fact is, if we were back home, I'd be a Lieutenant by now. Maybe even a Lieutenant Commander.

During that same time Tom Paris went from a criminal prison, to Lieutenant, demoted back to Ensign, and then re-promoted back to Lieutenant.

Harry only had one (minor, fell in love w/an alien) mark against him in seven years and played a major role on the ship including being included in senior staff meetings and Operations Manager.

I realize Harry states in the quote above that their "circumstances are unique," to give the Captain an out in the conversation, but this is not an answer. Tom Paris was promoted in rank during those same circumstances and did not have the training/grades that Kim had, and had major marks against him including demotion and being thrown in the brig.

Why by this point wasn't Harry Kim promoted?

Tom wasn't promoted multiple times, he was demoted and then had his rank returned — Valorum, Aug 09 '15 at 20:40
@Richard Tom was promoted from Prisoner/Civillian to Ensign, then he was promoted to Lieutenant, then demoted to Ensign, then promoted again to Lieutenant. He did not enter the ship with a starfleet rank, so that's two promotions, a demotion, and a re-promotion, by my calculations. In any event why wasn't Harry promoted? — JMFB, Aug 09 '15 at 20:44
Starfleet returned his rank, Janeway returned his rank. It's arguable whether he had one promotion or two — Valorum, Aug 09 '15 at 20:45
@Richard, VOY "Caretaker": JANEWAY: You help us find that ship, we help you at your next outmeet review. PARIS: Ah ha. JANEWAY: Officially, you'd be a Starfleet observer during the mission. PARIS: Observer? Oh hell, I'm the best pilot you could have. JANEWAY: You'll be an observer. When it's over, you're cut loose. PARIS: The story of my life. So Paris went on the ship as a civilian observer and was promoted to the rank of ensign by Janeway. — JMFB, Aug 09 '15 at 20:49
Paris was the son of an Admiral, had graduated Starfleet and piloted a ship before. Kim was a fresh graduate with no real off-world experience. — Valorum, Aug 09 '15 at 20:58
Although Jason Baker isn't wrong, I was under the impression you wanted an in-universe answer why Harry Kim wasn't promoted, not why the producers didn't write him a promotion :-) — Valorum, Aug 09 '15 at 21:23
@Richard Actually I just wanted to see somebody outscore you on an answer at least once on this site. LMFAO — JMFB, Aug 09 '15 at 21:26
Paris is obviously a special case. Was anyone else promoted? If not, then I think we have an explanation. — DJClayworth, Aug 10 '15 at 03:30
@DJClayworth Tuvok comes to mind, he was definitely promoted. Torres was promoted to Lieutenant and never graduated starfleet. — JMFB, Aug 10 '15 at 04:04
@JMFB: "Tom was promoted from Prisoner/Civillian to Ensign" When was that? I don't see where you're getting this "Ensign" thing from. — Lightness Races in Orbit, Aug 10 '15 at 09:43
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I edited my answer to make that correction 13 hours ago. That comment is old. Either way it's not crucial to my question, which is focused on Harry and why after 7 years he still has not been promoted. — JMFB, Aug 10 '15 at 10:18
@JMFB: Was just reading the comments, in which I saw no indication that you'd changed your mind. Sorry. — Lightness Races in Orbit, Aug 10 '15 at 10:23
Because nothing good gets to happen to Harry Kim. He's essentially the O'Brien of Voyager. — Mason Wheeler, Aug 10 '15 at 17:40
@MasonWheeler I was thinking more like the Wesley Crusher, kind of a goody goody, a bit awkward, almost always does and wants to do the right thing. Makes a stupid mistake, like Wesleys mistake when they did that flying stunt and got somebody killed. Smart, trusted, etc. I think of them as kind of the same character. The whipping boy of the show, can be pushed around, talked into something, gullible, etc. — JMFB, Aug 10 '15 at 21:40
@MasonWheeler "Poor, dumb Harry." - SF Debris, at least once per Voyager episode — Wolfie Inu, Nov 10 '15 at 05:00
Harry also complained about this in the same scene where Tom gets "promoted". He says "didn't notice a little box on my chair!" implying that he is quite put out that Tom got promoted and he didn't. — Kidburla, May 25 '18 at 21:19

Jason Baker · Accepted Answer · 2015-08-09T21:54:06.897

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Out-of-universe, the answer is pretty much Janeway's. Garret Wang, the actor who played Kim, gets asked this in interviews a lot, as you might imagine. In a 2011 interview with StarTrek.com, for instance, he said:

During the fourth season, I called writer/producer Brannon Braga and asked him why my character hadn't received a promotion yet. His response? "Well, somebody's gotta be the ensign." Geez, thanks. Thanks for nothing.

It's obviously not an entirely satisfying answer, but it's the one given by the showrunners: every totem pole needs a bottom.

edited Aug 09 '15 at 21:54

answered Aug 09 '15 at 21:15

Jason Baker

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+1 good answer, let's see what others think. I don't know why you consider this not canon if the producers made that statement. – JMFB Aug 09 '15 at 21:19
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And the in-universe reason? – Valorum Aug 09 '15 at 23:22
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@Richard Is about 3 inches that way ↓ ;) – Jason Baker Aug 09 '15 at 23:28
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It amuses me that the actor is that fussed. Does he get more cash if his character gets a 24th century promotion? Lots of good roles are 'the young one' or similar. – ThruGog Aug 10 '15 at 10:27
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I think that is he wrong way to look at it. Paris started out a prisoner. The maquis, because they had the power to group negotiate quickly were granted ranks suited to their experience and skills. Tom was just one step above a prisoner, was not trusted, and they simply did not need him as much. Eventfully he was granted a rank akin to his starting experience and skills (similar to what the maquis got). Note that Kim has zero experience starting out, while Tom has served on many vessels and is the best pilot on the entire ship. – Jonathon Aug 10 '15 at 15:06
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Yeah, but he's "George"! In the US Navy, "George" is the senior ensign on board a ship - he gets special, oversized ensign's bars and gets ribbed about it a bit. "Oh, there's something that needs doing? Let 'George' do it!" is the usual bit of banter. Sounds like Kim would be the senior George in the fleet - that's gotta be worth something..! :-) – Bob Jarvis - Слава Україні Aug 11 '15 at 13:54
"every totem pole needs a bottom" --- Can you say "Neelix"? ;) And really, as long as there is a functioning Chain-of-Command, everyone can be "Captain" or whatever, right? – user23715 Aug 11 '15 at 14:36
@praxis There I gave you another one. Now I have to find one for nsoong somewhere. And you originally posted this as a comment and didn't even want to post this as an answer. I told you to post it, and see how many votes you got. +420 on rep plus 15 for the correct answer, plus additional stragglers here and there, You owe me about four fitty fuhshnizzle. You should throw me some rep for this one! – JMFB Aug 22 '15 at 02:12
@ThruGog - It may interest you to know that they offered Wil Weaton a promotion instead of a pay increase. He laughed at them, then got his pay increase. – Valorum Dec 22 '15 at 00:03
@Richard That's such a strange way of working. The studio could have offered them all Commander and Captain ranks, explained that they'd prefer to stay on the Enterprise and saved a fortune ;-) – ThruGog Dec 22 '15 at 11:51
It's racism, asians always serve no matter what – jumper rbk May 10 '20 at 01:35
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Makes sense... It's not like there are a bunch of new recruits constantly coming in from Starfleet Academy for him to command, and likewise not many officers of higher ranks leaving for him to replace. The "Train of Command" isn't really passing through Voyager like it would a Federation dwelling ship. – komodosp Jan 31 '23 at 16:02
"Every totem pole needs a bottom"? Have you seen Discovery where they promoted everyone and their dog to commander?! – ThePopMachine May 09 '23 at 23:49

Valorum · Answer 2 · 2015-08-09T21:47:10.073

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There's a few things going on in-universe;

Janeway is very stingy with her promotions.

Over the course of the show, we only really see her promoting a couple of characters; Tuvok to Commander in Voy: Revulsion and Paris back to Lieutenant in Voy: Unimatrix Zero. It's theoretically possible that lots of others were getting bumped up, but there's no special evidence that this is happening.

At least to begin with, Janeway wasn't even in a position to offer permanent advancement since all she can do is offer battlefield brevets. Without Starfleet to make her promotions stick, they're just temporary.

Harry Kim is very young

Although Kim proves himself an exceptional junior officer over the seven years they're adrift in the Delta Quadrant, the reality is that he's only just left the Academy. He certainly thinks he should be promoted, but Janeway evidently does not.

He's already been promoted beyond his grade

Kim is running the ops department and latterly heads up the night shift as OOD (Officer of the Deck). Although it's not really made clear what his duties are, this evidently involves ordering other (more senior) officers around as well as getting to sit at the big table during all senior staff discussions. Realistically, this is far more than he should expect at this stage in his career and frankly, he should be immensely grateful for the experience.

Harry had a blot on his record.

You've mentioned it in your question, but Kim openly and knowingly breached Starfleet protocol in Voy: The Disease. This resulted in him putting himself and the inhabitants of both ships in mortal danger just so he could get jiggy with an alien babe. Although this is pretty much Riker's defining characteristic in TNG, it's certainly possible that Janeway felt strongly enough to pass him over for promotion.

Everyone would want promoting

Although Kim's conduct is excellent, there's no major reason to assume that other crewmen haven't also comported themselves well. After seven years, not getting a promotion (when others are) would be massively demotivating. Better to not offer them and wait until they return.

He's Janeway's favourite.

Everyone knows that Kim is Janeway's favourite. Despite being fresh out of the academy she practically dotes over him, offers him plum assignments, invites him to Senior Staff meetings and all the away missions he wants. Frankly, if she was to promote him as well, I can see the crew really starting to hate him.. It's noteworthy that her first act after returning is to ensure that he gets a big fat promotion.

edited Aug 09 '15 at 21:47

answered Aug 09 '15 at 20:51

Valorum

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7 years in? Tom Paris has less experience, did not graduate starfleet academy, etc. etc. and was promoted to Lieutenant (twice). I should have included the quote from a few episodes where Harry even mentions this not being exactly fair as he does in this quote. – JMFB Aug 09 '15 at 20:53
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Actually I was wrong. He did graduate the academy. He was stripped of his rank & had it reinstated by Janeway of Lieutenant Jr Gr. She still had no problem putting a box on his chair, etc. after he was in the brig for 30 days & a year later got his pip back. It's kind of ridiculous that Harry after seven years did not get a single promotion in Rank. The blot on his record was nothing compared to the crap Paris did, especially trying to destroy a civilizations mining colonies in an ocean. Big deal Kim fell in love w/someone. If it were Tuvok, or Chakotay would she have been as hard on them? – JMFB Aug 09 '15 at 21:02
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@JMFB - Paris' promotion was largely in recognition of the enormous changes he'd made in his behaviour and personality. – Valorum Aug 09 '15 at 21:48
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"It's noteworthy that her first act after returning is to ensure that he gets a big fat promotion." Was that in a book? Was it canon, or? – Lightness Races in Orbit Aug 10 '15 at 09:45
@lightnessracesinorbit - Mentioned in an interview I recall. – Valorum Aug 10 '15 at 11:27
@LightnessRacesinOrbit At least, isn't it shown in VOY:Endgame that a decade after Voyager's return to Earth (in the original timeline), Kim is a captain? Even with some years of experience under his belt, going from ensign to captain in less than a decade seems a quite fast promotional track. While I don't think it is stated in the paired episode, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if, in-universe, Janeway had a bit of influence in that. – user Aug 10 '15 at 13:59
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Id hazard the entire crew that makes it back gets a wave of promotions, I think the key point is, why would they even bother with promotions while they are trapped for 70 years, whats the point? after 70 years of promotions janeway would have had to promote herself to admiral, and half the crew would be admirals lol. When they returned after 70 years would her promotions even have mattered, ect. aka why promote when your all effectively stranded for life. – Himarm Aug 10 '15 at 14:09
Paris has loads more experience. Kim had absolutely zero, Tom had served on a few ships at least and was according to every source the best pilot they had. I would compare him to B'Elanna, who was granted the position of chief engineer simply becuase of her experience with the maquis – Jonathon Aug 10 '15 at 15:12
@MichaelKjörling: Yes and no. In that timeline, they'd spent 23 years on Voyager, with command-level deaths on the way, so it stands to reason that Harry was no longer an Ensign by the time Voyager got home. In fact, between seeing Harry Captain the Rhode Island and seeing the "present day" sequences of Endgame, 26 years had passed in total. That's a long time. – Lightness Races in Orbit Aug 10 '15 at 15:24
@JonathonWisnoski: Kim's experience after even just four or five years on that ship was nothing to sniff at – Lightness Races in Orbit Aug 10 '15 at 15:25
But Kim gained experience alongside everyone else. That is why there were no promotions, as everyone got those years of experience. – Jonathon Aug 10 '15 at 16:14
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@Himarm Haha! "Grand Admiral Chakotay, who shall we send down on the landing party? High Admiral Kim, or Puhbah Admiral Paris?" "I don't know Grand High Admiral Janeway,we better send someone with less rank. Maybe Advanced Captain Wildman?" – Aug 10 '15 at 17:05
@Michael - LOL that was actually a thing in the Star Wars books. In Legends canon, the various Imperial warlords who were carving up the Empire after Palpatine's death kept coming up with increasingly silly titles to make themselves stand out. – Omegacron Aug 10 '15 at 18:16
@Omegacron: The reset-button plotting in Voy:Deadlock involved Harry Kim being replaced with a doppelganger created by subspace weirdness. Maybe Janeway doesn't totally 100% trust this replacement Kim. Unlikely though, as it was apparently a physical process, not an alien like I thought I remembered. – Peter Cordes Aug 10 '15 at 19:31
Someone standing watch as Officer Of the Deck underway is basically a surrogate for the commanding officer, and his orders have the weight of the CO behind them. But understand - on board a ship "orders" are never voiced as such. I was never "ordered" to do anything, nor did I "order" people around. Orders are generally phrased as "requests", when circumstances allow - such as, "Would you please take this message up to the bridge?" - even though everyone involved knows that what was said was an order which could be construed as "Take this to the bridge, NOW!". Politeness counts... – Bob Jarvis - Слава Україні Aug 11 '15 at 14:03
@Himarm - Janeway made a huge deal about sticking to Starfleet protocol though, so that they wouldn't 'lose sight of the big picture'. With the prospects of becoming a generational ship, perhaps Janeway was just holding off in the plan of 'passing the buck' and give everyone a shuffle-up promotion when she and others 'retired'? – Robotnik Dec 21 '15 at 23:45
"pretty much Riker's defining characteristic in TNG" :D :D – dennis_vok May 10 '23 at 10:58

score 7 · Answer 3 · answered Dec 11 '16 at 04:22

I don't know about out-universe explainations but in-universe there are some (if not explicit) certainly logical reasons for the difference.

1) Janeway gives several field commissions when the two crews first merge. Tom is made a Lt. (jg) since that is the rank he had when he was forced out. He had the experience, the skills and the position (Chief Conn Officer) to justify it. The Maquis in key positions are also granted ranks in keeping with their positions. At this point Harry is about a week into his first assignment and thus no matter his competence has no good reason to be prompted.

2) As others have pointed out Janeway is stingy with promotions and rightly so...she can't just promote the lot of them into the Admiralty. Tuvok is the only person who gets an actual step up in rank.

3) The Paris Demotion/Promotion is actually the harshest punishment that Janeway hands out. Tom admittedly breaks the PD and is according in hot water. He gets a demotion and 30 solitary which is rather vindictive especially since Janeway breaks it herself in the very next episode.

Tom gets his rank back because he is an exceptional officer, Harry is a good officer but he doesn't have the courage-under-fire leadership that Tom does. Tom still ends the series with the same rank he was given in "Caretaker" as does everyone else except Tuvok.

No doubt the whole lot of them were promoted once they returned, they definitely all earned it.

4) Lastly, about "crap on Tom's record". Tom's greatest transgression by his own admittance was lying about his own pilot error.

For that he was drummed out of Starfleet something Janeway is tacitly putting behind him by granting a field commission (time served so to speak).

The rest of Tom's record was mostly wrong place at the wrong time. After all even his prison sentence was for joining the Maquis, and one can hardly hold that against him on ship full of ex-Maquis.

On the pro side he saved the ship numerous times, undertook a dangerous undercover operation, and matured into a considerate and responsible husband and father.

Hello Meddwl, and welcome to the SF & Fantasy Stack. That's a great first answer! Can I interest you in taking the [tour], nonetheless? — SQB, Dec 11 '16 at 08:29
Some actual references (script quotes, for example) would turn this from a good answer into a great one. — Valorum, Dec 11 '16 at 09:28

score -2 · Answer 4 · answered Jun 04 '17 at 18:15

Everything I've read about Ops says it is a coordinator who organises Supply and Science into a useful workforce when the ship needs repairs or upgrades. This means the Ops Officer is usually bored, until a battle breaks the ship. Spock (as Chief Science Officer) often fills the Ops job reqirements, but never holds the position. Data (as Ops Manager ) often fills the job requirments of Science Officer, but is never shown to hold the Science Officer position. I think on a very large ship the Supply Department would have more to do. Enterprise-D was an ambassadorial ship. The Scientists seem to come and go as needed. Maybe nobody stuck around long enough to be Science Officer. Harry Kim is like a low-ranking Data, and T'Pol and Jadzia are more like Spock. Since an Ensign (Harry Kim) can be the Ops Mgr, we have to assume it is not a frequently needed position. Yes, I know, we see them in every episode! That's because if we saw the other things they do...well we would be as bored as they must be. The shows are only interresting when things are breaking or planets need help. The rest of the time they would just be standing around, maybe updating a log, or trying not to get caught daydreaming. Maybe that's why Harry never got promoted? Maybe anybody could have done that job.

Your answer seems to be based on speculation, are there any sources or clips you could provide to support you answer? — Edlothiad, Jun 04 '17 at 18:21