Are there businesses in Mordor?

Question

This is a fairly straightforward question. In The Two Towers, it is revealed that Sauron pays his armies. When Merry and Pippin are abducted by Orcs, the Orcs argue about what to do with them. An Orc from Mordor suggests bringing them to a nearby Nazgul, and another Orc scoffs, saying:

"Maybe! Then you'll fly off with our prisoners, and get all the pay and praise in Lugburz [Lugburz is the Dark Tower of Sauron]..."
-The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers, Book III, Chapter 3: "The Uruk-Hai"

This made me wonder how he got the money to pay them - did he use magic to make it appear out of thin air, or is it the accumulated rewards of centuries of pillaging, or does some sort of commerce, trade, and enterprise take place in Mordor? For my actual question, I'm only asking about the business, commerce, and trade aspects of this issue (not about making money appear, or pillaging, or even levying tributes and taxes on Mordor's allies and neighbors).

So again, does Mordor have a true economy, i.e. businesses, trade, commerce, shops, commercial manufacturing facilities (i.e., not just slaves making weapons, etc), and so on?

"Just slaves making weapons" is probably not a bad supposition. These are beings (Orcs) corrupted to the full and enamoured by this great being (Sauron). Their only payment is probably the attention of their leader Sauron and is probably sufficient. See fanatic. — Möoz, May 12 '15 at 01:21
@Mooz - I thought so too, but the book strongly implies, if not saying outright, that the Orcs are paid in cash, gold, or something similar. I don't know if they'd leave if they weren't getting paid, but it is at least a reasonable question to ask — Wad Cheber, May 12 '15 at 01:31
Certainly the Orcs of Isengard and Moria are only obeying orders because they expect pay and plunder. I'm not sure about the Orcs of Mordor. — Wad Cheber, May 12 '15 at 01:33
Also related: Does the depiction of Uruk society in Shadow of Mordor have any basis in LotR canon? — Möoz, May 12 '15 at 01:34
I imagine you can extrapolate from what Saruman (Sharkey) did to the Shire. To the umpteenth power. — Joe L., May 12 '15 at 02:05
I'm not coming up with anything that "strongly implies" that Orcs are paid. Not necessarily unlikely, but I can't think of anything. — Matt Gutting, May 12 '15 at 02:46
@MattGutting When Merry and Pippin are captives, the Orcs argue about what to do with them. One mentions a winged Nazghul, and another gets suspicious: "Maybe! Then you'll fly off with our prisoners, ad get all the PAY and praise in Lugburz [Barad-dur]" — Wad Cheber, May 12 '15 at 17:48
@Mooz: Doesn't seem that the Orcs, or at least some of them, are all that enamoured of Sauron. For instance, at the end of The Two Towers Sam overhears Shagrat & Gorbag, the Orc troop leaders, talking about how even the "Top Ones" can make mistakes, and planning to slip off on their own after the war, if it goes well, "...somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses", "like old times". — jamesqf, May 12 '15 at 17:57
@WadCheber Nice find, thanks - I'd forgotten about that line. — Matt Gutting, May 12 '15 at 18:20
I am pretty sure that the majority of Mordor's economy would be financial services! — Ghanima, May 27 '15 at 19:55
Sauron is at the top of a large pyramid scheme, like Amway. A PYRAMID SCHEME OF EVIL!!! Like Amway. Also, he makes a ton of money through licensing. — John Sensebe, Aug 27 '16 at 14:59
There must be at least one restaurant because "Meat's back on the menu!!**" — Valorum, Aug 27 '16 at 15:28

score 30 · Accepted Answer · answered May 12 '15 at 01:33

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To my knowledge (believe it or not) this issue never comes up in the novels. Perhaps Tolkien thought it would be obvious, or maybe he thought it wasn't relevant.

There has been quite a lot written on this topic, though none of it really backed up by anything but speculation. However, they all come to basically the same conclusion: Sauron must have been trading with someone.

There was a region in Mordor (Núrn, in the south) that was fertile enough to grow food to "feed Sauron's armies", run by slave labor. So he wouldn't need to import much food. The rest of Mordor, on the other hand, was a barren wasteland, but it was full of mines. Sauron forged all of the weapons and armor for his armies from the mines in Mordor.

Most likely, Sauron had trade agreements with the nations in the South and East (e.g. the Haradrim) to sell them, either ore, smelted metal, or fully forged goods. In addition, Sauron's rise to power lasted decades before the world at large knew who he was, meaning he could have traded with even the western countries for a while, building up a war chest.

answered May 12 '15 at 01:33

KutuluMike

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Any hints about money-based businesses- bakeries, butcher shops, shoe stores, lumber yards, etc? I'm going to guess the answer is no. – Wad Cheber May 12 '15 at 01:49
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no hint at all. The only people we actually know exist in Mordor are the Orc army and the slave farmers. – KutuluMike May 12 '15 at 02:17
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no hint of businesses. The only income to Sauron that is ever mentionned are the heavy tributes he asks from his vassals and conquered lands. – Joel May 12 '15 at 02:26
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And plunder, of course. – Joel May 12 '15 at 02:30
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See also The Last Ringbearer – Jason Baker May 12 '15 at 03:00
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@JasonBaker, nice. – Paul Draper May 12 '15 at 06:07
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As far as I understand it, the only reward Sauron's forces got for their service to him was food and the enjoyment of killing their enemies. Sauron would not have had any "trade agreements" with the Easterlings or the Haradrim unless that agreement was "fight for me and send food/materials/fresh slaves as needed or I'll destroy you" – maguirenumber6 May 12 '15 at 14:56
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@maguirenumber6 - Conan! What is best in life? ... – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 12 '15 at 15:14
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@maguirenumber6 - From the section of Two Towers where the Orcs are arguing about what to do with Merry and Pippin - "Maybe! Then you'll fly off with our prisoners, and get all the PAY and praise in Lugburz [Barad-dur]" – Wad Cheber May 12 '15 at 17:53
@maguirenumber6 - Also see the second answer to the question here - http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/73386/how-could-saruman-lose-the-battle-of-helms-deep – Wad Cheber May 12 '15 at 17:55
I'd forgotten that quote. I wonder what the currency is in Mordor? – maguirenumber6 May 12 '15 at 18:09
@maguirenumber6 so do I. The first things that popped into my head were: 1. Their pay is distributed from the stockpiles of looted treasure. 2. Sauron makes gold magically appear as needed (and ignores the supply/demand issues that would eventually result in rampant inflation as the supply of available gold skyrockets) But no economy is sustainable over the long term without industry and manufacturing, so I asked this question. – Wad Cheber May 12 '15 at 18:42

score 7 · Answer 2 · edited Jun 16 '20 at 09:31

The only proof of possible existance of trade relations of Mordor with other lands is this little reference:

'Then you do not pay tribute to Sauron?' said Gimli.

'We do not and we never have.' said Éomer with a flash of his eyes; 'though it comes to my ears that that lie has been told. Some years ago the Lord of the Black Land wished to purchase horses of us at great price, but we refused him. for he puts beasts to evil use. Then he sent plundering Orcs, and they carry off what they can, choosing always the black horses: few of these are now left. For that reason our feud with the Orcs is bitter.

If Sauron considered purchasing horses from Rohan then I don't see it's impossible that he indeed had trading contacts with other, more likely to cooperate, realms and peoples (he could use proxies for example so to not reveal himself as well in style of Saruman's business dealings with Shire). Sauron ruled ever growing empire and there were many wars of conquest waged in the East and South, he had enough resources and riches to build a trading empire if he ever wanted, hell Sauron accumulated lots of mithril (paid in tribute by Orcs and they plundered it from Moria), but of course he could also take anything he wanted by force or intimidation or simply ordering his subjects to provide things in form of tribute, tolls, taxes etc.

Also even Orcs seem to like money as in actual minted coins, Azog who was independent 'orc-king in Moria' had a purse of coins:

Nár stooped to take the head, but the voice of Azog said:

'Drop it! Be off! Here's your fee, beggar-beard.' A small bag struck him. It held a few coins of little worth.

score 4 · Answer 3 · answered May 27 '15 at 10:45

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Hard currency is a relatively modern concept from a Middle Earth point of view. "Pay" may have been . . .

prestige (higher rank)
better job (less chance of early death)
better quarters
more wives/mating rights
more time off.

What does an Orc want with gold (other than for adornment and prestige)? Where can he "spend" it? Orcs would have been paid in things Orcs want, I reckon every Orc dreamed of being "High grand torturer" with a large harem and many slaves.

This is pure speculation and I have nothing to back this up with

answered May 27 '15 at 10:45

Binary Worrier

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A couple of Orcs discuss the possibility of running away from Mordor and robbing people for a living. It sounds like they do like money – Wad Cheber May 27 '15 at 16:23
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@WadCheber: This is true, and the Trolls from The Hobbit waylaid travellers and stole their gold, weapons & other stuff (and ate the travellers). – Binary Worrier May 28 '15 at 08:37

Are there businesses in Mordor?

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